Maria Courts, baptised 32 years after birth?

[Valman]

Hi,

l wonder if anyone can help, l'm trying to trace someone in my family tree, she was born to Thomas Luke Cooper Courts and his wife Martha according to the census in 1852ish in Edinburgh, Scotland where Thomas was working, seems after her birth Martha came home with her family to Bethnal Green and Thomas stayed behind in Scotland. l've not been able to find a birth in Scotland for her nor a birth registration for her anywhere in the East End, but have just found a baptism 5/4/1887, showing her birth as 5/7/1855 which would have made her 32, she was baptised in St. Dunstans and All Saints Tower Hamlets, it shows parents deceased which l think was right at that time, l wonder why she would have decided to be baptised at such a late date has anyone any ideas?
l then find a Maria Courts in the 1891 census as a patient in the London county Lunatic Asylum, and then also a M. Courts in 1901 still in the asylum, then a death in 1922 age 66 in Croydon.

Any ideas would be gratefully received as l'm puzzled why she would have been baptised so late in her life, after her parents had both died. Also would any records be available for this asylum.

Thanks

Valman

[carolchipp]

Hi Valman
Try searching the National Archives website. Any surviving records are probably held in the local records office (it will tell you where, on the NA site). I have copies of the medical reports of an ancestor who was in and out of an asylum and they can be very informative, not only about the person concerned but the treatment of patients in the past.
Carol

[Peter Goodey]

l'm puzzled why she would have been baptised so late in her life

I'm afraid that if there's no documented reason, there's no way to find out why. Perhaps the asylum records will shed some light on the matter.

would any records be available for this asylum.

Use the Hospital Records Database

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/h...rds/search.asp

What was the cause of death?

[kermie62]

Could it be sew to her needing to be part of the Parish or the Church to access the workhouse/lunatic asylum

I seem to remember that some workhouses automatically baptised all people who came into them

[Valman]

Hi Valman
Try searching the National Archives website. Any surviving records are probably held in the local records office (it will tell you where, on the NA site). I have copies of the medical reports of an ancestor who was in and out of an asylum and they can be very informative, not only about the person concerned but the treatment of patients in the past.
Carol

Hi Carole,

l will try the National Archives, hopefully if l can find any surviving records they will give me some idea of how she ended up in the asylum as it does look as if she died in there as well.

Valman

[Valman]

I'm afraid that if there's no documented reason, there's no way to find out why. Perhaps the asylum records will shed some light on the matter.



Use the Hospital Records Database

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/h...rds/search.asp

What was the cause of death?

Hi Peter,

l'm going to try locate any surviving records which could give me some idea about her, and also order the death certificate though lm not sure what help that will be, though it may give me the actual name of the asylum, as there appears to have been more than one l believe.

Valman

[Valman]

Could it be sew to her needing to be part of the Parish or the Church to access the workhouse/lunatic asylum

I seem to remember that some workhouses automatically baptised all people who came into them

Hi Kermie,

Thanks for that idea, l suppose it is a possibility that she may have had to be baptised to be admitted, l can't think of any other explanation, l will have to look into that, see if l can find out if that was the case.

Valman

[Kerrywood]

l'm going to try locate any surviving records which could give me some idea about her, and also order the death certificate though lm not sure what help that will be, though it may give me the actual name of the asylum, as there appears to have been more than one l believe.

In 1891 and 1901 Maria is in the asylum at Cane Hill, near Coulsdon -- originally one of the Surrey County Asylums but by then taken over by London. She may have died in that asylum, since Cane Hill is covered by Croydon RD.

Andrew Roberts' site is a standard online source for information on asylums, with good links and very well illustrated.

The records for Cane Hill are mainly split between Croydon Local Studies and the LMA. As Peter suggests, search the Hospital Records Database, using Cane Hill as keyword.

Kerrywood

[Valman]

In 1891 and 1901 Maria is in the asylum at Cane Hill, near Coulsdon -- originally one of the Surrey County Asylums but by then taken over by London. She may have died in that asylum, since Cane Hill is covered by Croydon RD.

Andrew Roberts' site is a standard online source for information on asylums, with good links and very well illustrated.

The records for Cane Hill are mainly split between Croydon Local Studies and the LMA. As Peter suggests, search the Hospital Records Database, using Cane Hill as keyword.

Kerrywood

Hi Kerrywood,

l have found out where the records for the asylum are and been in touch with Croydon archives who are checking their register for her name for me. l also received this morning her death certificate which shows she did die in the mental hospital as it became known, but it does show her as being married unfortunately they cannot give her husbands forename so l'm wondering now if this was my Maria as l cannot find a marriage for her at all especially to someone with the same surname as her. lf this is not my Maria l'm still at a loss to what happened to her after 1881.
Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Valman.

[Kerrywood]

l also received this morning her death certificate which shows she did die in the mental hospital as it became known, but it does show her as being married unfortunately they cannot give her husbands forename so l'm wondering now if this was my Maria as l cannot find a marriage for her at all especially to someone with the same surname as her. lf this is not my Maria l'm still at a loss to what happened to her after 1881.

What does the 1891 and 1901 census say about her age/place of birth? If everything else matches reasonably well, and after exhaustive searches you have failed to find any other trace of her, you may want to put her marital status down to an error made on admission, perhaps under difficult circumstances? The records you're awaiting from Croydon might help on that point.

In any case, she was most likely transferred to Cane Hill from a local workhouse/infirmary, where her marital status might have been recorded incorrectly and the information subsequently passed to the asylum.

Institutional records are notoriously inaccurate on such matters -- ages can be out by 10 years or more. It's all down to what was said at the time by the informant, who may not have been Maria herself.

I suppose it is a possibility that she may have had to be baptised to be admitted

Baptism was categorically not a requirement for admission to a workhouse or lunatic asylum.

It's true that inmates of poor law institutions were often baptised whilst in residence. This was sometimes at the behest of a particularly enthusiastic incumbent in the parish. The baptism register for Sutton Parish Church (Surrey), for example, shows large numbers of children of all ages baptised from the South Metropolitan School District, which was on that "patch". It was also a type of insurance policy, if it was thought that someone might have missed out earlier for any reason.

Kerrywood