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  1. #1
    macbeth
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    Default Finding Nana's Mother

    I know this all happened in Australia, but I was hoping someone out there has a few bright ideas for me.

    My Grandmother's father John Exon JOB was born in Devon in 1854, and migrated to South Australia about 1882 as far as I can tell.

    On 12 August 1885 we have him marrying Elizabeth BROWN, aged 16, father John Brown, mother not mentioned. Sometime between then and 1886 they moved to Melbourne and proceeded to have 3 children, Earnest Exon, 1886, Florence Harriet 1887, and My grandmother - Mabel being the youngest, born in August 1890 in Northcote Victoria. I have Mabel's birth registration and it has been signed by her mother Elizabeth.

    We always knew he was married a number of times, so in order to find Mabel's mother, about whom we know next to nothing, I've been chasing up JEJ's life. I've been trying to find her mother's name so we can trace down that line. This is what I've found, and to be honest with it's got me stumped.

    I have found that he married Sophia Louisa Le Couillard on the 7 Feb 1893, in Northcote. On the marriage register he has said that he was widowed in 1892. Fair enough, but I could not find a death of an Elizabeth Job aged 23 anywhere I looked. So getting desperate, I searched for any death of a 23yo in Melbourne in 1892 and found one Sarah Ann Job. Hmm. First name doesn't match, what else does? I got hold of her death register details and was struck dumb by a little note written in the "where born, how long in Australian colonies" category

    "Adelaide, South Australia, 16years in South Australia, 7 years in Melbourne". Now this had my hairs on the back of my neck standing up, the cause of death - abortion peritonitis - eek, the plot thickens.

    So now I had the idea of ringing Melbourne cemetery, as that's where it said she was buried. maybe I could see who organised the funeral. They were very helpful there and and told me her funeral/grave was paid for her husband John Exon Job! What is this? Where's Elizabeth? Who's this Sarah? Are they the same person? Dunno, - what really happened?

    There is more. JEJ and Sophia moved to Perth and had more children, the last being Leslie Rudolph born in May 1898, it seems that Sophia died in childbirth, as I have her probate info & it says she died in Perth on 31 May 1898. Just to make it more interesting, JEJ had Leslie buried in Melbourne in the same grave as Sarah Ann. - he died in Perth in August 1898

    Explain that - please - someone!


    So any thought anyone has on what has really gone on, and what I can do to untangle this web gratefully received
    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by macbeth View Post
    I know this all happened in Australia,
    Perhaps you would have most luck in the Australian forum.

  3. #3
    dawn/karen
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    cant explain your burial problem but been loking for what i can find for you.


    birth
    Mar 1854

    John Exon job Newton Abbot 5b 114

    1861 cencus

    John Exon Job
    Age: 6
    abt 1855

    Father's Name: Thomas
    Mother's Name: Harriet
    Where born: Hennock, Devon, England


    Thomas Job 41
    Harriet Job 41
    Henry Job 13
    Albert George Job 11
    John Exon Job 6





    RG9; Piece: 1403; Folio: 13; Page: 3

  4. #4
    macbeth
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    Thanks, I did some more digging last night & solved the Leslie burial as far as I can, his death was registered under "Norman" for some reason.

    I will try the Aust forum
    cheers

  5. #5
    Procat
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    Hi,

    I have moved this from Brickwalls to Australian forum.

  6. #6
    Brick wall demolition expert! ChristineR's Avatar
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    There is more. JEJ and Sophia moved to Perth and had more children, the last being Leslie Rudolph born in May 1898, it seems that Sophia died in childbirth, as I have her probate info & it says she died in Perth on 31 May 1898. Just to make it more interesting, JEJ had Leslie buried in Melbourne in the same grave as Sarah Ann. - he died in Perth in August 1898

    Explain that - please - someone!
    Quote Originally Posted by macbeth View Post
    Thanks, I did some more digging last night & solved the Leslie burial as far as I can, his death was registered under "Norman" for some reason....
    cheers
    I would imagine that John has come back to Victoria with his family after his wife's death, as Leslie / Norman died in Victoria - his death was registered here and there was also an inquest.

    Victorian Inquest index
    Norman JOB
    Year 1898
    Ref # 1066

    Victoria Pioneer Index
    Norman JOB, died Melb E, 1898
    parents, Job Jno, Sophia Louisa LENORPI
    age:
    age code: M (for Month/s)
    reg # 13008

    edited later - by time John Exon Job applied for probate in Victoria it was July 1899, and he had only two children by this second wife living. He claimed that he was late applying for probate because he had expected to come back from WA but was unable to - he was not in Victoria when he applied, but living in WA. His late wife had several properties in her name. (digital file at PROV) and Northcote was given as her usual address.
    Last edited by ChristineR; 15-11-2009 at 8:22 AM. Reason: add more
    ChristineR

  7. #7
    macbeth
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    Nice theory, but as far as I know the rest of the family stayed in Perth. It seems his second wife (Sophia) died during/shortly after the birth of Leslie/Norman - 31st May 1898 in Perth. She is buried in Karrakatta cemetary.

    He, and all his other children continued to live in Perth, John is in Perth on the electoral roll in 1903.

    The only thing I can think of as to why John returned to Melbourne with the child was that maybe Sophia's family was there, and he was planning to leave him with them. I have not done much on Sophia, it appears she was born Jersey (Channel Isles).

    I think I also need to get the inquest details, does anyone know how I go about that, please?

    The more I think about this, the more it does my head in, so sorry if I'm sounding a bit grumpy .

    Thnak you all for your help
    Beth.

  8. #8
    CassieK
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    Hi Beth

    The bride's mother's name was not detailed on South Australian marriage certificates in 1885. The mothers' names were not detailed until 1964.

    Inquest records at PROV
    https://www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/pu...OVguide071.jsp
    https://www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/pu...OVguide008.jsp

    The files can be viewed in the reading rooms at PROV or alternatively you may employ an agent. All details on the above links.

    There is only one JOB headstone at Melbourne General Cemetery and unfortunately it is not your Sarah/Elizabeth. Sarah/Elizabeth and Norman are obviously in unmarked graves.

    Perhaps you should read the Letters of Admin etc. for Sophia - she died intestate.
    https://proarchives.imagineering.com....sp?searchid=54

    There is another LE COUILLIARD appearing on the indexes in that period...an Alfred Francis with wife Margot MOSS. Perhaps he was Sophia's brother.

    LE COUILLIARD Alfred Francis b. Jersey
    MOSS Margaret b. Ballarat
    1888 Reg#7001

    Not the first time I have seen a marriage registered in what may not be the person's given registered name but in a name they are known by and would use that name to sign documents eg birth registration of a child. A member of staff [sometimes porters] may have registered the death in 1892 and if Sarah Ann was Elizabeth's registered name, and was the name given to hospital on admission, then that would account for not only the death registration but the burial record. Who was the informant on Sarah Ann's 1892 death cert?

    Alfred's death...just in case he is her brother....parents' names

    LE COUILLIARD Alf Franc
    Father Le Couilliard Geo Mother Sophia DE GRUCHY
    Prahran 78 years 1944 Reg#10808

    Hope you are feeling better

    Cassie

  9. #9
    Brick wall demolition expert! ChristineR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macbeth View Post
    Nice theory, but as far as I know the rest of the family stayed in Perth. It seems his second wife (Sophia) died during/shortly after the birth of Leslie/Norman - 31st May 1898 in Perth. She is buried in Karrakatta cemetary.

    He, and all his other children continued to live in Perth, John is in Perth on the electoral roll in 1903.

    The only thing I can think of as to why John returned to Melbourne with the child was that maybe Sophia's family was there, and he was planning to leave him with them. I have not done much on Sophia, it appears she was born Jersey (Channel Isles).

    I think I also need to get the inquest details, does anyone know how I go about that, please?

    The more I think about this, the more it does my head in, so sorry if I'm sounding a bit grumpy .

    Thnak you all for your help
    Beth.
    No, it wasn't theory it is a fact that Norman was in Victoria when he died, aged a few months. He and the other two children could have been left in care of a relative, grandparents, siblings, from either side of the family until John organized himself to be able to care for them back in WA.

    John Exon obviously had homes in both WA and Victoria at the same time. It would be polite to visit family to tell them of the death of his wife and show them his children. I don't find it odd that he would bury the child of his second wife with his first wife, that would not be all that uncommon. It would have been odd if the child had died in WA as you first thought. If he died in an institution, then it was normal to hold an inquest.

    By the way, I have noticed that being enrolled is actually no guarantee that a person is still living at that address at the time. I've found some of my lot moving about, a wife would enrol, but the husband would still be enrolled at his parents address. I've found some being enrolled in two places at the same time.

    The WA death certificate might give you Sophia's parents, and maybe where she was born in the Channel Islands. But they are very expensive. The Vic marriage certificate would give them for sure, at half the price.

    It seems that Elizabeth and Sarah Ann are the same person, if not then they must be sisters. What if she was really Sarah Ann, but called herself Elizabeth because she had run away from employment or pretended her parents were dead. It is also possible that Elizabeth has given the wrong name for her father at the time of her marriage, if she grew up without one.

    Do you have the SA marriage certificate? the witnesses might yield a clue, and also there should be a note about parental consent since she was under age.
    ChristineR

  10. #10
    Procat
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    Quote Originally Posted by macbeth View Post
    On 12 August 1885 we have him marrying Elizabeth BROWN, aged 16, father John Brown, mother not mentioned.

    I have found that he married Sophia Louisa Le Couillard on the 7 Feb 1893, in Northcote. On the marriage register he has said that he was widowed in 1892. Fair enough, but I could not find a death of an Elizabeth Job aged 23 anywhere I looked. So getting desperate, I searched for any death of a 23yo in Melbourne in 1892 and found one Sarah Ann Job. Hmm. First name doesn't match, what else does? I got hold of her death register details and was struck dumb by a little note written in the "where born, how long in Australian colonies" category

    "Adelaide, South Australia, 16years in South Australia, 7 years in Melbourne". Now this had my hairs on the back of my neck standing up, the cause of death - abortion peritonitis - eek, the plot thickens.

    So now I had the idea of ringing Melbourne cemetery, as that's where it said she was buried. maybe I could see who organised the funeral. They were very helpful there and and told me her funeral/grave was paid for her husband John Exon Job! What is this? Where's Elizabeth? Who's this Sarah? Are they the same person? Dunno, - what really happened?

    So any thought anyone has on what has really gone on, and what I can do to untangle this web gratefully received
    Thanks
    I am wondering if she was adopted? Perhaps by the Brown family, then when she died she was recorded under her birth name. Or the other way round perhaps.

    On the Death Certificate what is shown for her parents, place of birth etc?

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