Charles Alfred Wales - any help appreciated!

[morrisb]

Hello! I'm totally stuck trying to research a relative of my wife.

Here's what I know:
1) Charles Alfred Wales - married Mary Ann Webber 2 Aug 1880 in Newport. Condition: Widower, Profession: Marine Engineer, Father: William Wales, Father's Profession: Farmer
2) He died in 1881, the GRO ref is Dec 1881 Cardiff 11a 177, Age: 37 (therefore born abt 1844)
3) He had a daughter: Louisa Wales born 5 Sep 1881, Cardiff

Here's what I suspect:
1) He drowned - is it worth ordering the death certificate to find out? Any way to trace drowned seamen?
2) He previously married in Liverpool - there's a Charles A Wales, Jun 1866 Liverpool 8b 210
3) He may have used the name Alfred rather than Charles

I can't find him in any census entries, or any record of his birth.

Can anyone suggest where I might go from here?

Many thanks!

[Raffaele]

This could be his father in 1881

William WALL,Head,63,Clyro, Radnorshire,Farmer 330 Ar 3 Men 1 Boy
Eliza WALL,Wife,52,Clyro, Radnorshire,Farmers Wife
Lucretia WALL,Dau,23,Clyro, Radnorshire,Farmers Dau
William WALL,Son,20,Clyro, Radnorshire,Farmers Son
John WALL,Son,18,Clyro, Radnorshire,Farmers Son
David WALL,Son,8,Clyro, Radnorshire,Scholar
Lillian M. WALL,Dau,6,Clyro, Radnorshire,Scholar
Eliza GOODE,Serv,25,Clifford, Hereford,General Serv Domestic

Chapel Farm,Clyro, Radnor
RG11 5469 / 37 / 30

[SueP]

Hi Morrisb

Do you have Louise's birth certificate? If yes - what is the address on it? And have you got her on any of the censuses from 1891?

Also the addresses on Charles & Mary's marriage cert?

It would be useful to get Charles's death cert too, not only to confirm cause of death, but to see what his address was at the time.

Charles and Mary are likely to be on the welsh census for 1881 taking into consideration the above - but I am drawing blanks too.

Do you know when/where Mary was born?

I see there was a marriage of a Mary Ann Wales in Cardiff, Mar 1883, 11a, 391 - could this be your Mary remarrying? Potential husbands being John Charles Bethell / William John Pope. But I drew a blank looking under these names.

Trying to assist!
Sue

[maesglas/ssclub]

Hi morrisb

I looked first for the birth of CHARLES WALES or ALFRED WALES or the combinations of both, but found nothing from 1842 to 1846, apart from this one: WALES ALFRED WILLIAM, born Docking, last quarter 1846 Ref: xv1 61.
Docking on todays maps is not too far from Kings Lynn and the wash, Norfolk.

Found the marriage you mentioned in Newport 1880 and the death in Cardiff 1881, but of course thats no help to you, I have been told that some merchant navy records have been kept at Cardiff and Liverpool Museams, but most are at Kew National records, but even these are very limited, they only kept a small proportion (20% I was told) but worth a look, I live in Newport Monmouthshire as it was then, now Gwent, if there is anything I can look up for you I will do my best, where did you get the drowning info from, any more detail on that, any tit bits can help.
Robert.

[SueP]

Hi

I have ruled out the marriage of Mary Ann Wales to John Charles Bethell. (I'm assuming Louisa may be referenced under a step-father's name)

John Bethell died 1877, but there was a Bethell birth Sep qtr 1883: Mary Elizabeth. I found her on 1891 census: RG12/4391/72/66.
She is with her mother Elizabeth and some Shanly half siblings

So that could possibly lead to Mary Ann Wales marrying the Pope chap!

To delve a little more!

Sue

[maesglas/ssclub]

Hi again
Looking on the Genealogist site, 1881 census, I noticed that when trying to select a county, Glamorgan and Monmouthshire are not listed, strange ???
any body know why.
Robert.

[emeltee]

Hi Robert,
I don't think that The Genealogist have done all the counties yet for 1881. They are adding them bit by bit which is probably why you can't find certain ones.
Emeltee

[maesglas/ssclub]

Thanks emmelty
Thats not much use then, will try As------ see what they have.
Robert.

[maesglas/ssclub]

hi emeltee
Justing saying sorry for mis spelling.
thanks once again.
Robert

[morrisb]

This could be his father in 1881

William WALL,Head,63,Clyro, Radnorshire,Farmer 330 Ar 3 Men 1 Boy
Eliza WALL,Wife,52,Clyro, Radnorshire,Farmers Wife
Lucretia WALL,Dau,23,Clyro, Radnorshire,Farmers Dau
William WALL,Son,20,Clyro, Radnorshire,Farmers Son
John WALL,Son,18,Clyro, Radnorshire,Farmers Son
David WALL,Son,8,Clyro, Radnorshire,Scholar
Lillian M. WALL,Dau,6,Clyro, Radnorshire,Scholar
Eliza GOODE,Serv,25,Clifford, Hereford,General Serv Domestic

Chapel Farm,Clyro, Radnor
RG11 5469 / 37 / 30

Sorry, I didn't say that on Charles wedding cert William Wales is listed as deceased. So, thanks but no, I don't think this is him.