JOHN WEST

[pennydog]

Can anyone suggest how to find the birth of John West. I have a copy of his marriage certificate in the parish of St. John's Middlesbro in1872. His father's name is John Joseph West. On the 1881 census he gives his year of birth as 1852, his occupation as a carman and born in Middlesbro, he is living with his family in Bermondsey. By 1891, he is living in Limehouse, is still a carman, & gives his year of birth as 1851. His wife is from London, and the first 3 children are registered in Stockton, the rest in London. I just do not know where to go from here - freebdm lists plenty of John Wests 1849-52 none in Stockton, but how can I pinpoint the right one? Have tried the IGI index but again lots of entries, none from Middlesbro. In desperation I researched the 2 witness to the marriage Mary Hierons appears to have been a friend of wife (Louisa Goodway), from London and the other is a William Keener b1833 Co.Durham, a Blacksmith. If anyone has any suggestions on how to unlock this conundrum they would be saving my sanity!!

[pennydog]

Thanks for that idea - I am 'with' Find my Past & their 1851 census is very incomplete, however I have tried the 1841 for John Joseph (no one), there 17 John Wests in Yorkshire, none from Middlesbrough, and just one in Durham, assuming his father was b1820 +/- 5 years. Again I am up against how do I know which one?

[pwholt]

Given that you have one possible father living in Co Durham AND a witness at the wedding who also came from Co. Durham, it is worth some investigation, over the other possibilities. PW

[birdlip]

On the 1881 census he gives his year of birth as 1852, his occupation as a carman and born in Middlesbro, he is living with his family in Bermondsey. By 1891, he is living in Limehouse, is still a carman, & gives his year of birth as 1851. His wife is from London, and the first 3 children are registered in Stockton, the rest in London.

Hi Pennydog,

there seems to be a bit of confusion about where he was born, and about his wife for that matter!

I thought I had found him in 1881[RG11/ 0563/ 90/ P47] a carman living in Bermondsey as you say, b Middlesbrough in 1852, but his wife is ELIZABETH, and is also b in Middlesbrough, the first child John is b in Middlesbrough, but the remaining three in Bermondsey.

In 1891 he is in a carman in Limehouse this time with Louisa, BOTH claim to have been born in Middlesex, the first three children in Yorks, Middlesbrough, the next three in Bermondsey and the last two in Limehouse. [RG12/ 294/ 81/ P56]

So, presumably Louisa was Louisa Elizabeth, and chose to use one name in 1881, and the other in 1891? But were they born in Middlesbrough or Middlesex?

Do you have them on any other census to clarify things?

[pennydog]

Hi Birdlip - these are the 2 census records I have and indeed the wife was Louisa Elizabeth Goodway - I have census records for her up to 1871 & the marriage cert. for her & John in 1872. In 1871 she is working as a servant in Twickenham & 18months later she is marrying in Middlesbrough. The witnesses to the wedding are a Mary Ann Heirons (another servant working in Kensington, but her family live in Twickenham, not far from Louisa Goodway) & a blacksmith William Keener born in Darlington 1835 but in 1871 living in Middlesbrough. I cannot find John West in 1871 - there are just so many! I even looked at every house in Kendal Street - the address that he gave on the marriage cert. The address that Louisa gave Duncombe St. comes up as 'no record found' when I tried to do the same. I know from the marriage cert John's father is John Joseph West and it does not say deceased, so I assume he is living in 1872. I have found a John West b1829 on the 1871 census living in Wilson St Middlesbrough (RG10 4892 / 89/ 26) with wife Fanny + lodgers, but again I have nothing to prove any connection.
I have checked the children On FreeBDM John William and Annie Louisa are indeed both registered in Stockton and all the subsequent children in London. One last ? is Middlesbrough in Co. Durham or Yorkshire - all the census/ BDM say Durham but the marrriage cert. is the Parish of St. John's Middlesbro Yorks. Any light anyone can shed on this will be gratefully received. It has been driving me mad, just so frustrating!!!

[birdlip]

What is John Josephs occupation on the marriage certificate?

[birdlip]

...and does John still give his occupation as carman on his marriage certificate?

[birdlip]

I think you can rule out that John West with Fanny in Middlesbrough in 1871.

In 1881, he and Fanny have a son with them, Robert Joseph, 17 born "Barleystone" Leicestershire. In both 1871 and 81 Fanny is born in Leicester, and John is born in "Barlaston", Leicestershire. John is a widow in 1891, living with lodgers, and again gives "Barlaston" as his place of birth. I think this is their marriage on freebmd;

Dec 1862 WEST John M Bosworth* 7a 181
( and on the same page, Fanny Thorpe)
* Market Bosworth is in Leicestershire and includes a little place called Barlestone.

[pennydog]

Hi again, and thanks for your interest. John West and his father both give their occupations as Labourer (Suggesting that John Joseph is still working?), whereas William Goodway is a bricklayer - consistant with all the census data. Is is 's**s' law that all the other people on the cert. have less than usual names and are thus easier to check out?
The Wests in Middlesbrough were just a long shot, at best, but because I can find nothing of any certainty with mine anything is just possible!!

[pennydog]

One other mysteries Annie West is missing from 1881 census, but appears in 1891. I have looked at every Ann/Annie?Anne west on 1881 census in the vain hope she is with grandparents/aunts etc., but typically not one of the entries could relate to her!!