Elizabeth Jane King - born in London, or Stafford?

[JellyBelly]

My ancestor Elizabeth Jane King was born circa 1850. She married George Edward Wood on Aug 23rd 1872 in Essex.
I can trace George and Elizabeth through the census records after they married – 1881, 1891, 1901 and 1911 – no problem. On each she lists her place of birth as Bermondsey, London OR Shoreditch, London (I believe there is a Shoreditch in Bermondsey? My knowledge of geography is rubbish!)

What I want to do is confirm when and where Elizabeth Jane King was born and trace her life through the census records prior to 1881. In theory, she should exist in 1851, 1861 and 1871 but I can’t find her.

Her father’s name on the marriage cert is James King, a Tailor.

I found a James King, a Tailor, in the 1861 census living in Worcestershire with a wife Jane and various children, one of which was Elizabeth. Bingo, I thought. Elizabeth’s middle name is Jane so maybe named after her mother – occupation fits etc. etc and the age of Elizabeth was approx. correct – aged 10 in 1861.

Problem is, her place of birth is listed as Stafford. Normally, I might put this down to the census taker putting ‘ditto’ marks for where they live maybe, and not bothering to list correct place of birth but it appears that each child in the King household I found in 1861 was born in a different place, two in Cheltenham, Elizabeth in Stafford and so on, so it does appear that this information would be accurate rather than not (James and Jane, the parents were born in Worcs). Beyond 1861, I can trace James and Jane King but most of the children, including Elizabeth, have flown the nest so impossible to check the family as a whole again to compare places of birth etc.

Now in each census where Elizabeth is married, it is very definitely Shoreditch or Bermondsey as her place of birth – which again differs from her spouse so again, no ‘ditto marks’ blurring the lines. She must be saying she was born there.

Which is correct? Have I got the wrong 1861 census? Have I got the wrong James King the Tailor and is the mother being Jane a complete coincidence? If you think I have, then where is Elizabeth (Jane) King with a father James in 1851, 1861 and 1871?!

Clearly James King moved about given his children are born in different locations which makes it harder to carry out the right searches (obviously have to consider that she may be listed as Elizabeth Jane King in a census OR just plain old Elizabeth King)

I have found a birth in 1849 of Elizabeth Jane King born in Bermondsey and am tempted to reference check for father James and order it but if anyone has any more pearls of wisdom, I’d be happy to hear them.

Somebody help me please!! I'm going round and round in circles and need a fresh pair of eyes to look at this.

[Raffaele]

Shoreditch is near Bethnal Green, East End of London
Bermondsey is South of the River.

Whilst they are not far apart it is not the kind of mistake a Londoner would make.

Elizabeth King and George Wood are not exactly unusual names.

There is the possibility that you have collected two different families here, hence your frustration.

I had one of my line with a far less common name than yours and traced them back to 1750. As I finally wrote up the data I noticed one childs birthplace was wrong. Parents and three children everyone the right age but I had got the wrong family. Go back look further down the list and there was the correct one. Oh they came from Southwark, next to Bermondsey.

[Mutley]

Definitely confused, poor luv Two different sides of the river and two different counties.

Bethnal Green and Shoreditch were in Middlesex.
Bermondsey was in Surrey.

I'll have a look when I come home this evening.

[JellyBelly]

Thanks guys...I would SOOOOO love some help. It's interesting you say Shoreditch is in Middlesex and Bermondsey is in Surrey because in 1891, apparently Bermondsey was in Middlesex (see below)?!! It's no wonder I'm confused!

I have looked at a map now as well and can see what you're saying about Shoreditch and Bermondsey but I definitely haven't mixed up my Wood family - even if I've mixed up my Kings!! Elizabeth clearly had a senior moment in 1911, and forgot which side of the capital she was from!

In 1881 Elizabeth's birthplace states London, Bermondsey
In 1891 Elizabeth's birthplace states Middlesex Bermondsey
In 1901 Elizabeth's birthplace states London, Bermondsey
In 1911 Elizabeth's birthplace states Shoreditch

Have checked all originals, not just transcripts (and to be fair, there appears to be a line over Middlesex, next to Bermondsey in 1891!)

It is the correct Elizabeth Jane with George Edward each time, I believe. For most of his life, George was an Ostler and the only time this differs is in 1901 census where he is a labourer but in 1901, son Robert George Wood's wife appears as Daur in law staying with Elizabeth and George, which supports that it is the right family again.

I guess Bermondsey would be the birth location to go for (and put the Stafford connection aside) but this still means I can't find her in 1851 or 1861 with her father James King the Tailor - whether in Bermondsey, Shoreditch, Stafford or High Ongar, Essex!!! I have to concede that by 1871 she will not be living with parents anyway and it will be very hard to trace an Elizabeth King when I don't know where she was.

[Chennistone]

Must admit that I can't find her in the 1851 or 1861 either but this birth registration seems to be the most likely given her census information. This would confirm parentage and give precise birth info.

Births Sep 1850
King Elizabeth Jane Bethnal G. 2 73

[Mutley]

No, must admit, am having a job.

She does seem confused about her birth place so either registration could be hers. In 1871 there are a few London born Elizabeth Kings down as servants, again any of them could be her.

I looked for an Elizabeth with a father called James who was a tailor and there are not many of them in the London area either, none fit except this one whose birth place is even further out but they are living in St Mary, Newington, down the road from Bermondsey.

James King age 47, a tailor, born Bucks
Martha King 43, his wife born in Northamptonshire
John King 16 a son born in Northamptonshire
Elizabeth King 12 daughter do
William King 9 son do
Thos King 7 son do
Harry King 5 Months born in Newington, Surrey

RG9; Piece: 345; Folio: 77; Page: 54


Just a thought, if she married in Essex in 1872 that was just a year after the 1871 census, have you tried tracking the address she gave then?

Sorry, not much help

[JellyBelly]

Chennistone - you and I thought alike - already ordered that cert for Bethnal - was convinced it was the right one, but nope! Got it a couple of days ago and definitely not her

Mutley - would try suggestion about address but I can't make it out!! It is one word, not an address so probably an area and it looks like '_ _ field'. The first two letters could be TY or FY or it could even be three indistinct letters. I have tried googling areas of Essex (as that's where they married) but can't come up with anything.

Thanks for looking for me and if you think of anything else, do let me know!!

Where can I look up Tailors in London for that year, any suggestions? He probably didn't have his own business, but you never know!?

[Raffaele]

That will be Fyfield, Essex then

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/rep...x?compid=15546

[JellyBelly]

I guess it must be - but still no street address to search on so doesn't help me find her

[Raffaele]

If you look on Google maps now it is hardly more than a small village. In 1850 it was probably just a few houses.