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  1. #21
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    Hi

    Bermondsey has been a part of the London metropolis since about 1750-1760 time. My 4xgreat grandmother was born in Bermondsey in 1777 and she lived to 1858 and her 1851 census birthplace says Bermondsey, Surrey, as it was in the historical county of Surrey up until 1889 when the London County Council was formed.

    However, to locals it probably was regarded as London way before 1889 despite pedantically being is Surrey. Bermondsey has never been in Middlesex.

    Ben

  2. #22
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    Hi Jellybelly

    Glad that the birth was the correct one.

    I'll have another look at 1851. But in the meantime I have the marriage reference for Elizabeth's parents! Noted several down but didn't know which was right so didn't give you them.

    James King to Jane Thorne: Jun qtr 1846, Bermondsey, 4, 20

    Cheers.

  3. #23
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    Hi

    Had found a birth & christening record on the IGI that I believe is Elizabeth's brother William.

    B. William Joseph King - 11 Apr 1852
    Chr. William Joseph King - 20 May 1857, St John the Baptist, Shoreditch, London

    Parents: James & Jane King.

    This made me look at the 1851 in a different location as the 1871 census has William as being born: George Sq, Shoreditch.

    The 1881 says 'Old Town, Hexton, Herts. I believe this should be 'Old Town, Hoxton, Middx' as this is Shoreditch. So thinking the family could have moved here pre-1851 census I had a look at it.
    District 5 of 1851 has coverage of George Square, but unfortunately there were no 'King's' here either!

    So they are still proving elusive to me too!

    Regards

  4. #24
    Valued member of Brit-Gen. Aislin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JellyBelly View Post

    Where can I look up Tailors in London for that year, any suggestions? He probably didn't have his own business, but you never know!?

    You could give this a shot
    Historical Directories

  5. #25
    JellyBelly
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    Default Ordered marriage cert for parents

    Hi Sue - have already ordered parents marriage cert but thanks for the info on William. I wasn't sure whether to bother ordering his birth cert but it may help pinpoint them in 1851. Knowing my luck, they will have lived at one address in 1849, another in 1851 and another altogether when William was born! I want to establish James' approx age to see if it helps any in tracing them which I'll get when I get the marriage cert. Jane's subsequent husbands were quite a bit older than her so maybe James was too and this explains his demise so much earlier than her.

    Thanks for all your help with this brickwall and I'll keep you posted if I come up with anything else.

  6. #26
    Mutley
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    If you go back with the Thorne name, (I presume it is a previous husband of Jane and not her maiden name) should you find any references in Oxfordshire or Berkshire please shout. My Thorne branch came from there and I have quite a bit of parish information, you never know, there may be a connection.

  7. #27
    Ron Lankshear
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    Well I've looked and looked for 1851 without surname etc etc. All tricks I can think of.....
    I did think they moved to Shoreditch area as confusion over place born. People answered this question every 10 years and I wonder how they understood it. Place I was physically born or place I was brought up and name used for it now or time I was born.

    The IGI was a good find and interesting he was born 1852 and christened 1857 - I think that implies a move after 1852 - perhaps James died and things like baptism did not seem important

  8. #28
    JellyBelly
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    Default Thorne

    ..I am actually assuming (for now) that Thorne was her maiden name which means an origin of Moreton, Essex. She was approx. 29 when she married James King and it appears that Elizabeth is her first child so whilst it isn't inconceivable that she got another marriage in before James(!), I am thinking it less likely. When I get the marriage between her and James, I should hopefully have the answer if she is a widow or spinster at that time.

    I appreciate you all trying - if I get more info, will let you know.

  9. #29
    JellyBelly
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    Default Have marriage cert of Elizabeth's parents

    ..and don't know where to go next to try and find them in 1851 census

    Date of marriage - June 28 1846, St James' Church, Bermondsey, Surrey
    They were both living at Frederick Street, Bermondsey at time of marriage

    Jane Thorne was a spinster. No age for James given - just 'full age'.
    At time of marriage James was not a Tailor but was a waiter in a tavern.

    James' father is George King, a labourer
    Jane's father is Joseph Thorne, a bootmaker

    Unless anyone has any bright ideas, will be abandoning my quest to find them in 1851 census (for now at least)

    Thanks for all your help!

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