Secret Codes

[AdeleE]

Are lines 3 & 4, the hieroglyphics, a continuation of the Lord's Prayer?
Line 3:
Hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come
Line 4:
Thy will be done.... The code seems to change near the end of line 4.

Adele

[AdeleE]

I think that these are all substitution ciphers, where one symbol = one letter. The last two lines seem to be a Mason's cipher or pigpen cipher.
The question remains: Why?
Was the postcard sent as a memento "remembrance of old times sake" or as a map for codebreaking other documents that were being sent?

Adele

[v.wells]

Sarah - You have totally captured the imaginations of B-G members

Just terrific reading!

[AdeleE]

Hmmmm. I'm noticing that none of the digits are larger than 5? Do you see any 6? I wonder if the letters of the alphabet have been placed on a grid, so that 54 would be row 5, column 4?

I've got to get some sleep tonight, but I can see insomnia ahead.

Adele

[AdeleE]

And then perhaps columns 5 & 6 work the same way, using penstrokes, upright, leaning to left, leaning to right:

I, II, III, IIII, IIIII, /,//,///,////,/////, \,\\,\\\,\\\\,\\\\\.

Darn, After 15 symbols, I'm out of letters. Are some of the strokes underlined?

Adele

[Hugh Thompson]

The first part looks like.
T H E L O R D S P R A Y E R.
20.8.5. 12.15.18.4.19. 16.18.1.25.5.18.


O U R F A T H E R W H I C H A R T I N H E A V E N
15.21.18. 6.1.20.8.5.18. 23.8.9.3.8. 1.14.20. 9.14. 8.5.1.22.5.14.

[Sarah J Homfray]

I didn't realise this was going to generate so much interest! It has been a popular subject in my close family for years, It's great to get others involved.

Just to clarify a few things:

My father deciphered the whole thing many years ago (I have his workings out somewhere but not to hand), do we all agree with him that it is the Lords Prayer?

Does anyone have any theories about the front of the card? Who would have known how to do writing like this, was it taught in school?

The F stands for Francis, although his actual name was (here we go again):
Edward Philip Alfred George Francis Claudius Meysey CARPENTER
Any theories on this? I have never come across anyone with this many names.

He lived in a back to back house in Walsall indicating he was probably quite poor. He was a journeyman for a living and worked for a Mr Able. No one knows why he came back to England and no one knows why he killed himself. He appears on the 1891 census but not the 1881. He was dead by 1901. My family have the coroners report on his suicide (an original cut from the paper at the time) and his notebook with all his goodbyes scribbled in the back.

I am fascinated by all your detective work! I look forward to more...

[Browneyes]

Having looked at a wide variety of similar lettering I'm thinking now that the writing on the front of the card is unusual in that it has the 'shadow' on the left of the letters in, presumably, pencil which gives a 3D effect which makes me think they might have been an embosser/chaser. i.e. engraver. The nine little elaborate dots underneath seem unnecessary - artist licence perhaps - odd when the rest of the card seems 'organised'. The careful columns of letters/numbers/symbols on the back could suggest familiarity with writing neatly and carefully. It's written on heavy duty card with rounded corners similar to victorian photographic card.

The writer obviously went to alot of trouble, carefully working on the front lettering, spending money on a stamp, and thinking/writing a complex coded message that required the reader to turn the card and have good eyesight. It's addressed to F. Carpenter so presumably he would be expected to understand the message. No house number - I don't know how many houses there were in Hall Street - I guess postmen were familiar with names if post was regularly received by a particular person. Not sure about the handwritten initials at the top - the ink looks similar though. The writer must have had access to several different pen nibs.

A really good postmark specialist might just be able to pinpoint where in Walsall it came from.
Maybe someone could say what each of the codes are, i.e. the name of the code and from that it might be (she says ) possible to work out what they all have in common or which people in 1899 might know about them.

That it's the Lord's Prayer is interesting...why not a poem or just text? Are all the clues hidden in the 'mistakes' and if so, what exactly are the 'mistakes'?

Oh...and I don't reckon it's a sweetheart!

There! Now I'll get back to the kitchen.

[Sue Mackay]

I've just seen this thread. Fascinating! I have been wrestling with my own codes since Saturday night, being an addict of the Saturday Independent Inquisitor Crossword in the supplement. I didn't break the code till Monday morning this week (Haydn symphonies - you had to know your 26 times table for the alphanumeric code or else you'd run out of fingers long before you reached the London Symphony), but having duly solved seven out of the eight 'special' clues I have reached a brick wall with 1 down. So if anyone has done this crossword can they put me out of my misery and tell me whether I am looking for a specific philosopher, a specific palindrome, or something I haven't thought of!

[AdeleE]

Google Mason's cipher or pigpen cipher. I've found something similar on a few websites.

Adele