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  1. #1
    A fountain of knowledge.
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    Default Joshua Gray & Delenda Williams

    uhm, considering the amount of work Ive done on the Grays I am quite suprised Ive never nailed this one down.

    Joshua Gray was b.cir 1840 in Boston, Lincolnshire, and married Delenda Williams who was baptised as Hartherdelender in 1833 Hornsea Yorks, d/o Job & Elizabeth Williams.

    They were married in 1859 Ormskirk District Lancashire (GRO Index). It would be far too easy to just grab the marriage certificate to find out who his father was, and I never do things the easy (expensive) way if theres another way.

    Joshua and Delenda went on to have a bundle of chavvies mostly in Southport area Lancs. There was Enoch, John, Nelson, Joshua, Samson and Herbert for sure.

    But on the 1881 census they are travelling with some nephews and nieces - Leona, Samson, Wymore and Herbert Brown.

    Now I long since felt that this group belonged to Edward Heron and Bella Gray of the Heron Pedigree, Edward being on of Khulai Heron and Dorelia Boswell (d/o Tyso). Isabella Gray was d/o Harriet Williams by John Budd "Jack" Gray (who was transported in 1844). Harriet Williams mother was reputedly Maria Boswell, Dorelias sister, who had a liason with David Williams. It need not be mentioned that Maria Boswell herself also had a relationship with John Budd Gray because that sounds a wee bit freaky and only complicates matters more. Oops I told you.

    So I am wondering if the Brown chavvies have turned up with auntie and uncle Josh and Delenda because they were related via the Williams side of the family........ or ....

    Was Joshua Gray another child of John Budd Gray by lord only knows who. He had at least 5 "wives" that I know of already, and reputedly 8 children, although I have only ever found seven. So is Joshy the elusive 8th child?

    And if anyone has any data on the Williams lineage Id be grateful. Many thanks

    Ann x

  2. #2
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    Default

    well, Josh was s/o John Budd Gray.....

  3. #3
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Ann65 View Post
    well, Josh was s/o John Budd Gray.....
    now proven, I found his baptism

    Joshua Gray s/o John & Maria c.22.07.1838 Revesby Lincs

    His half sister Victoria Gray was baptised at the neighbouring parish of Moorby (d/o John & Harriet) on the same day.

    If anything were to prove the much-married John had a liason with both Maria Boswell the mother, and Harriet Williams the daughter, at the same time, this is it!

    In both cases the baptisms were described as to gipsys..

  4. #4
    RonOne
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ann65 View Post
    Joshua Gray was b.cir 1840 in Boston, Lincolnshire, and married Delenda Williams who was baptised as Hartherdelender in 1833 Hornsea Yorks, d/o Job & Elizabeth Williams.

    They were married in 1859 Ormskirk District Lancashire (GRO Index). It would be far too easy to just grab the marriage certificate to find out who his father was, and I never do things the easy (expensive) way if theres another way.
    Hi Ann,

    Just incase you still don’t have the marriage details:

    (Source: Lancashire Online Parish Clerks)
    Marriage: 27 Aug 1859 St James, Birkdale, Lancashire, England
    Joshua Gray - (X), 22 Tin Man & Brazier Bachelor of Birkdale
    Delenda William - (X), 27 Basket Maker Spinster of Birkdale
    Groom's Father: John Gray, Tin Man & Brazier
    Bride's Father: Job William, Basket Maker
    Witness: William Stewart; Edwd. Johnson
    Married by Licence by: B. Swift Incumbant
    Register: Marriages 1857 - 1876, Page 25, Entry 50
    Source: LDS Film 1657578

    Birkdale is just over a mile from Southport and came under the Ormskirk registration district.

  5. #5
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    Default Josh Gray

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronone View Post
    Hi Ann,

    Just incase you still don’t have the marriage details:

    (Source: Lancashire Online Parish Clerks)
    Marriage: 27 Aug 1859 St James, Birkdale, Lancashire, England
    Joshua Gray - (X), 22 Tin Man & Brazier Bachelor of Birkdale
    Delenda William - (X), 27 Basket Maker Spinster of Birkdale
    Groom's Father: John Gray, Tin Man & Brazier
    Bride's Father: Job William, Basket Maker
    Witness: William Stewart; Edwd. Johnson
    Married by Licence by: B. Swift Incumbant
    Register: Marriages 1857 - 1876, Page 25, Entry 50
    Source: LDS Film 1657578

    Birkdale is just over a mile from Southport and came under the Ormskirk registration district.
    Many thanks - I knew Josh and Delenda settled in Lancs, but this helps a lot in proving them. x

  6. #6
    RonOne
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    Hi Ann,

    Same marriage on Family Search pilot:

    Groom's Name: Joshua Gray
    Groom's Birth Date: 1837
    Groom's Age: 22
    Bride's Name: Delenda Williams
    Bride's Birth Date: 1832
    Bride's Age: 27
    Marriage Date: 27 Aug 1859
    Marriage Place: North Meols Parish, Birkdale, Lancashire, England
    Groom's Father's Name: John Gray
    Bride's Father's Name: Job Williams
    Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I04110-4
    System Origin: England-EASy
    Source Film Number: 1657578
    Reference Number: v 3354/1/2 p 25
    Collection: England Marriages, 1538–1973

    Then there is this strange entry also on Family Search Pilot:

    Groom's Name: Joshua Gray
    Groom's Birth Date: 1838
    Groom's Age: 21
    Bride's Name: Delenda Williams
    Bride's Birth Date: 1838
    Bride's Age: 21
    Marriage Date: 26 Aug 1859
    Marriage Place: Cheshire, England
    Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I07258-5
    System Origin: England-EASy
    Source Film Number: 1894980
    Collection: England Marriages, 1538–1973

    The only marriage I can see on FreeBMD is the Ormskirk one.
    But then there is also a christening for a Nelson Gray in Cheshire:

    Name: Nelson Gray
    Gender: Male
    Event Type: Christening
    Christening Date: 02 Nov 1863
    Christening Place: St. John, Alvanley, Cheshire, England
    Father's Name: Joshua Gray
    Mother's Name: Delinda Gray
    Principal's Residence: Alvanley, Cheshire, England
    Image Number: 836
    Digital Folder Number: 4019277
    Film Number: 2186838
    Collection: England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000

  7. #7
    dikaccai
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    Default Honor, Honora, Brown, and Festus Boswell

    Hi Ann...
    I am new to the list and have been working on my maternal side of the family. The bunch is intermarried with the different Romanichal families and I look with great interest at your post.
    I have had nothing but trouble trying to trace my GGrandmother, Matilda Boswell's family back to England. They were in the US in Floyd County, Indiana in 1870. Honora Boswell nee Brown? born about 1838 in England, is there with her girls....Caroline, Phillis, Matilda, and Lemonar. Don't know where Festus (her husband) is. I found them in the 1851? (it could be 1861) in England, but nothing more.
    On the paternal side of the family....Rebecca Williams is my GGrandmother, who was born in 1829 at Fyler, Yorkshire, England, is the daughter of a Job and Elizabeth Williams. She married William Stewart and they came to America. When they arrived, She had a boy listed with the family named Job Smith. We had always assumed that she had been married before and the boy was from her first marriage to a Job Smith. We found a marriage license for the same; however, I have never been satisfied with this scenario. I think that maybe he was a relative just listed as a son. Can you shed any light on this issue?
    Some of our immediate family names are: Smith, Boswell, Stewart, Palmer, Woodruff, Williams and Wharton. Would appreciate any additional info, contacts or info you may want to share? Thanks....Ava in America

  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dikaccai View Post
    Hi Ann...
    I am new to the list and have been working on my maternal side of the family. The bunch is intermarried with the different Romanichal families and I look with great interest at your post.
    I have had nothing but trouble trying to trace my GGrandmother, Matilda Boswell's family back to England. They were in the US in Floyd County, Indiana in 1870. Honora Boswell nee Brown? born about 1838 in England, is there with her girls....Caroline, Phillis, Matilda, and Lemonar. Don't know where Festus (her husband) is. I found them in the 1851? (it could be 1861) in England, but nothing more.
    On the paternal side of the family....Rebecca Williams is my GGrandmother, who was born in 1829 at Fyler, Yorkshire, England, is the daughter of a Job and Elizabeth Williams. She married William Stewart and they came to America. When they arrived, She had a boy listed with the family named Job Smith. We had always assumed that she had been married before and the boy was from her first marriage to a Job Smith. We found a marriage license for the same; however, I have never been satisfied with this scenario. I think that maybe he was a relative just listed as a son. Can you shed any light on this issue?
    Some of our immediate family names are: Smith, Boswell, Stewart, Palmer, Woodruff, Williams and Wharton. Would appreciate any additional info, contacts or info you may want to share? Thanks....Ava in America
    Firstly, I can help with Job Williams & Elizabeth - she was Elizabeth Boswell, reputedly d/o Tyso Boswell who died at Tetford Linccolnshire in 1831. I dont have her baptism although I do several other children of his. Job was baptised 1804 Whittington Staffordshire the son of James and Hannah.
    Job also had a daughter called Mausolina Hearn c.1822 Dunham, Nottinghamshire by a Priscilla Smith. He also of course had Delenda Williams, baptised as Hartherdelinder in 1833 at Hornsea, Yorkshire, who married Joshua Gray. There was also Alamina c.1835 Hutton Cranswick Yorkshire, and Zealand, c.1826 Ashby By Partney, Lincolnshire.
    I have not been able to prove it but believe that Jobs brother was David Williams who married Maria Boswell (Elizabeths sister and Tysos daughter) and they had Harriet Williams, and both Harriet and her mother married John Budd "Jack" Gray. At the same time.
    Im going to seperate out the info so that will do for now. Please get in touch

  9. #9
    dikaccai
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ann65 View Post
    Firstly, I can help with Job Williams & Elizabeth - she was Elizabeth Boswell, reputedly d/o Tyso Boswell who died at Tetford Linccolnshire in 1831. I dont have her baptism although I do several other children of his. Job was baptised 1804 Whittington Staffordshire the son of James and Hannah.
    Job also had a daughter called Mausolina Hearn c.1822 Dunham, Nottinghamshire by a Priscilla Smith. He also of course had Delenda Williams, baptised as Hartherdelinder in 1833 at Hornsea, Yorkshire, who married Joshua Gray. There was also Alamina c.1835 Hutton Cranswick Yorkshire, and Zealand, c.1826 Ashby By Partney, Lincolnshire.
    I have not been able to prove it but believe that Jobs brother was David Williams who married Maria Boswell (Elizabeths sister and Tysos daughter) and they had Harriet Williams, and both Harriet and her mother married John Budd "Jack" Gray. At the same time.
    Im going to seperate out the info so that will do for now. Please get in touch
    Oh my!!! The plot thickens! I had always assumed that Elizabeth was Tyso's but didn't have any solid proof other than census names and dates. And I always had a feeling that something wasn't just right with Job. I always thought he was a Smith because he is listed on some of the documents as a Smith. What a surprise with this possibility!
    You can reach me at my e-mail address: ihatchbass AT aol DOT com....Look forward to hearing from you!
    Last edited by notanotherminer; 27-12-2011 at 10:03 PM. Reason: disguised email address to avoid spammers

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dikaccai View Post
    Oh my!!! The plot thickens! I had always assumed that Elizabeth was Tyso's but didn't have any solid proof other than census names and dates. And I always had a feeling that something wasn't just right with Job. I always thought he was a Smith because he is listed on some of the documents as a Smith. What a surprise with this possibility!
    You can reach me at my e-mail address:
    Please delete your email address - I have picked it up now, you wont want the spam accompanied with it on an open forum. Youll hear from mesoon x

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