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  1. #1
    draemdaniels
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    Default 2 times great grandfather 1840's in France

    My 2 times great grandfather 1840's in France working on the railway. In 1839 he John Daniels married Jane Wootton in Corsham, Wiltshire and I have the marriage record. His father is listed as Robert Daniels and his occupation as what I believe says Soldier. In 1840 on May 30th they had a son George Turner Daniels. In the 1841 Census I believe I have them but his name is listed as Joseph not John. Could be an error or Middle name?
    In 1848 April 28 I have my Great Grandfather Frederic born in Sotteville Les Rouen, France. I have a copy of his Baptismal certificate 21 April 1850. He had two sisters believed to be born in France, Sarah Ann and Mary Jane.
    They came to Canada and he drove train engine and died in a railway accident (where his train sank into quicksand) parenthesis are oral family history. Jane died shortly after. Frederic and his brother William were put into the Hamilton Orphans asylum in Ontario, Canada. on 30 May 1854. This is all the facts I have on My 2 times great grandfather. I would like help on getting more documentation in England and France. If anyone can give me guidance I would appreciate it. Thank you.

    Dennis Daniels

  2. #2
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    As a starting point for those helping with this

    1841 HO107 piece 1171 book 13 folio 5 page 3
    Dingly Bridge Corsham Wiltshire
    Joseph Daniel 25 labourer
    Jane Daniel 20
    George Daniel 1
    All born in County

    Ages for anyone over the age of 15 were to be marked down to the nearest 5 in the 1841 census. Not all enumerators did it but looking at all the entries on the page this one looks to have done it. So John/Joseph could be aged 25 to 29 and Jane aged 20 to 24.

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  3. #3
    JackieC
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    This is an aside, it doesn't really answer your question on French records... I read a novel by Edward Marston (who did a series of Victorian railway murder mysteries) that is set in France. The plot has English and Irish workers, both skilled and 'navvies' building the French railways as they had so much experience on building Britain's lines. Seeing as I have a railway navvy ancestor who disappeared off the British records for 20 years, I wondered if he went abroad to work on foreign railway building. I tried to find any historical non-fiction works about this but couldn't find any.

  4. #4
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    The French railways around Rouen were beginning to expand in the early 1840s and the French wanted skilled labourers to work on their railways to ensure full efficiency. Some UK towns even set up schemes for their railway staff to go to France for this purpose. Rouen was a small and desolated town before the railways brought many people to the town in the mid 1840s to early 1860s - the railway line has to be adjusted at one point because of the growing town.

    Hamilton doesn't have a train station anymore, but the old railway used to run north of the town along the coast bypassing it totally. Canadians took on any unemployed people and trained them, and this led to many unnecessary accidents. There was no such thing as health & safety then also. This railway line closed permanently in 1902 and then demolished soon after. There was also the Hamilton Street Railway which consisted of the tram and bus systems in the town, which is still going today. Industry increased in the early 20th century in the town, and the desire of long distance travelling made the company extend their routes and hire more staff.

    Archives Municipales will have some information of use to you, but it is worth hiring a translator first

  5. #5
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    Have you been able to pinpoint the date of death of John/Joseph Daniel? I know civil registration didn't begin until after 1867 in Ontario, so you will need other sources such as burials in the Hamilton area or newspapers which might publicise such an accident. Have you found the surviving family in the 1861 census, to establish the birth order of the children? The family seems to have been in France in 1850 and in Ontario by 1854. Can you get the dates a bit tighter on when they might have emigrated? It is so easy to be cavalier about the details but finding the details reveals the real story, and sometimes that is the most interesting part. pwholt

  6. #6
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    The birth certificate of George Turner DANIELS should carry the name of the father and his occupation at that date. You can apply for this from www.gro.gov.uk cost £9.25 gbp. You will need the following

    First name(s) GEORGE TURNER
    Last name DANIELS
    Birth year 1840
    Birth quarter 2
    District CHIPPENHAM Wiltshire
    Volume 8 Page 286

  7. #7
    draemdaniels
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    Default Thank You

    Quote Originally Posted by geneius View Post
    The birth certificate of George Turner DANIELS should carry the name of the father and his occupation at that date. You can apply for this from www.gro.gov.uk cost £9.25 gbp. You will need the following

    First name(s) GEORGE TURNER
    Last name DANIELS
    Birth year 1840
    Birth quarter 2
    District CHIPPENHAM Wiltshire
    Volume 8 Page 286
    Thank you for your reply. I did get the record from Ancestry with the parents names of Jane and John Daniels.

  8. #8
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Hi
    Who are the witnesses on the marriage certificate for Jane Wootton and John/JosephDaniels?

    I note that in the 1841 census above the entry for Joseph, Jane and George there is a James Wootton age 59 (her father? as per marriage records on familysearch.org) Christian? Wootton 61 and Thomas 20.

    There is this one other Daniels family in Corsham in 1841 None of them born in the County
    James Daniels Carpenter 44
    Ester Daniels 44
    Marcy Ann 20
    James 20
    Clarise 15
    Joseph 15
    Elizabeth 12
    Richard 9

    The only service record I can find for a Robert Daniels is one born 1750 in Ipswich Suffolk. He was discharged and given a pension in 1800. None of the information provides a link to John/Joseph

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  9. #9
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    There is a Robert Daniels, wife Charlotte baptising children in the parish of Enford which is about 20 miles from Corsham.
    There is also a Robert and wife Jane baptising children at Upton Scudamore which is approx. 14 miles from Corsham

    If we could find some siblings of John/Joseph it may help identify his parents.

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  10. #10
    draemdaniels
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    Quote Originally Posted by christanel View Post
    Hi
    Who are the witnesses on the marriage certificate for Jane Wootton and John/JosephDaniels?

    I note that in the 1841 census above the entry for Joseph, Jane and George there is a James Wootton age 59 (her father? as per marriage records on familysearch.org) Christian? Wootton 61 and Thomas 20.

    There is this one other Daniels family in Corsham in 1841 None of them born in the County
    James Daniels Carpenter 44
    Ester Daniels 44
    Marcy Ann 20
    James 20
    Clarise 15
    Joseph 15
    Elizabeth 12
    Richard 9

    The only service record I can find for a Robert Daniels is one born 1750 in Ipswich Suffolk. He was discharged and given a pension in 1800. None of the information provides a link to John/Joseph

    Christina
    Thank you Christina. James and Christian would be Jane's parents and Thomas her brother. William Webb who is listed right under George was a witness of the marriage and Christian was the other witness. Further down the Oram family Robert and Elizabeth she is also one of Jane's sisters.

    Dennis

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