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  1. #1
    GarryD
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    Default Suggestions Needed re: WWII Research

    This is not strictly a British genealogy question as it doesn't relate to any of my ancestors (although my grandparents and mother may have witnessed the incident) but I'm hoping someone can make a suggestion on how to unearth more information about a local history brick wall.

    In the 60s I used to live in Edward Road, Walthamstow overlooking what was then known as "The Elms" but which is now the Douglas Eyre sports ground at the bottom end of Coppermill Lane and which is now managed by the LPFA.

    There is a fairly well known story about a USAF pilot who died attempting to crash land his aircraft on The Elms to avoid the houses below during WWII but I am having no joy in finding his name or details of his service history etc.

    The house we lived in until 1964 was part of the famous (at least in these parts) Warner Estate. When my Mum used to walk to the estate office to pay the rent, which was at the bottom of Hawarden Road, in the driveway there was a glass display case on a plinth which contained either a wing or propeller tip from the plane with the story of the pilot's heroics on a plaque. I can't recall how many times I read the story while my Mum paid the rent but it must have run well into double figures.

    As I recall the story the pilot ran out of fuel or encountered mechanical problems during a supply flight over London (i.e. he wasn't shot down in a dog fight) and as he lost altitude he was faced with the decision to either bail out and save himself or try to steer the plane to safety and avoid it crashing into the built up area below. He opted to stay with the plane and tried to land on The Elms and although he managed to get it down in one piece the plane made a hard landing and exploded in flames. Nearby residents rushed to his rescue but I'm not sure if he was already dead by the time they reached him or whether he died later of his injuries.

    Unfortunately the name didn't stick in my memory but all I recall is that he was a USAF pilot and I think he may have been a lieutenant but that could just be my memory playing tricks on me.

    Strangely I can find no reference to this event via various Google searches, enquiries to the local newspaper (and I use the term advisedly) have met with no response, the LPFA had no knowledge of the incident but I have yet to look at the East London History Society website or check with the Vestry House Museum to see if they have any details in their archives although I plan to visit the latter next week

    The Warner Estate properties were sold off to private owners throughout the 80s and 90s and the remaining housing stock was acquired by the Circle 33 housing association (now Circle Anglia) in 2000. The old estate office is now just an empty shell and when I last looked through the gates a year ago there was no sign of the plinth or the display. I hope someone felt it important enough to preserve but sadly I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up in a skip!

    I was talking with the head teacher of a local school which is due to be relocated on a site which includes the estate office and while she was aware of the story and would like to include details of it in a history project for the school she is also hitting a brick wall in discovering any more information although she did say that the plinth (but not the display) was still there 3-4 years ago and she had heard that the pilot's family had visited the site some years ago.

    So, apologies for the long read, but where do I go from here?

    Thanks

    Garry

  2. #2
    Geoffers
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    Counties have their own archaeologists (to comply with planning law) who are aware of historic sites; including aeroplance crashes. For London, I believe that the County Archaeologist role is filled by 'English Heritage' - you might try contacting them; if they don't know they may be aware of a local archaeological society which has plotted sites in the area.

    Edit - Keith's suggestion below, seems the better idea to try first.

  3. #3
    Knowledgeable and helpful keith9351's Avatar
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    You could also try The American Air Museum at Duxford.

    https://aam.iwm.org.uk/server/show/nav.158

    Keith

  4. #4
    GarryD
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    Quote Originally Posted by keith9351 View Post
    You could also try The American Air Museum at Duxford.

    https://aam.iwm.org.uk/server/show/nav.158

    Keith
    Thanks for the suggestions.

    However, I had some unexpected spare time this afternoon and I spent a couple of hours with one of the archivists at the Vestry House museum and can confirm that the pilot who crashed on The Elms (Douglas Eyre) was Second Lieutenant Harvey Dalton Johnson, 23, of the USAF, originally from Philadelphia. The crash occurred on Sunday 22nd November 1942.

    I now have copies of the six articles relating the crash from the Walthamstow Guardian and also discovered that the propeller tip is now in the safe hands of the museum. I also talked to the photographic archivist and have made an appointment to see him early next month to look at some old photographs of Walthamstow and he has agreed to let me see and photograph the propeller tip/memorial plaque.

    He also advised me that the museum would like to find a suitable place to display the propeller tip and I mentioned the school's interest in incorporating the story of the pilot's heroics in some way in a display in the new building and now hope to be able to get the head teacher and the museum talking to each other.

    This has been one of my better days when it comes to knocking down a previously impenetrable brick wall and I am thrilled to discover that the memorial has not been lost. Maybe with a bit more of a push the name of Harvey Johnson DFC will again be acknowledged as the hero he was rightly acclaimed as in 1942.

    The next step is to try to discover where his remains are interred as a quote from his mother in one of the newspaper reports implied that his body was not repatriated at the time of the crash, although that may have changed subsequently.

    I will of course update this thread with any new developments and assuming that the Guardian don't have any objections will upload the scans of the reports to my web space.

    Garry

  5. #5
    GarryD
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    Hopefully someone here can point me in the right direction again.

    I am trying to find a death registration entry for Second Lieutenant Johnson as part of my research into his story so that I can order a copy of his death certificate. Local newspaper reports from 1942 and 1943 suggest that although his 'plane was repatriated his remains were not, at least not at that time and I am also trying to discover where his remains were (or are) interred).

    I have searched for a death registration entry on Ancestry but have so far drawn a blank. In the past I have found death registration entries for British RAF flyers who died on English soil but I wonder if a USAF pilot's death would be recorded in the same way. Perhaps someone here could advise me on this point.

    I have found what are likely candidates for him in the US Census and Enlistment records on Ancestry but I do not have a worldwide subscription and can not view the details.

    If anyone can help me out I would be most grateful.

    The details I have, taken from the Walthamstow Guardian reports are as follows:

    Harvey Dalton Johnson
    Born 1919 in Philadelphia, PA
    Resided at 504 Broadway, Westville, New Jersey prior to enlistment in 1940
    Initially trained with the US Flying Corps in South Carolina but served with
    402 Sqdn RCAF until transfer to the Eighth USAF shortly before his death
    Posthumously awarded the American Air Force DFC in 1943
    Parents: Rufus B Johnson (real estate salesman) & Edna Morley of 1337 Gilman
    Street, Philadelphia, PA
    Siblings: Rufus (born 1921, died 1942 aged 21), Robert born 1923,and Eleanor
    born 1925

    Thanks for any suggestions or information provided.

    Garry

  6. #6
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    Yesterday I came across a site with an extremely long page giving considerable information about individual pilots, some of which I seem to remember were from Philly...it wasn't what I was looking for so I didn't note down the website but I'll see if I can find it again amongst yesterday's pc history & if it's relevant.

    Browneyes

  7. #7
    Knowledgeable and helpful
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    These are two of the sites - the first is pretty complex so I'll have to leave you to search. There are pdf pages that give lists of people but as you'll see it'll take a bit of patience to search through.

    You can google for flightglobal

    This is another one but I can't see your man on there.

    Again you need to google thetartanterror.blogspot.

    Both sites are very informative.

    B x
    Last edited by Mutley; 01-03-2009 at 2:24 PM. Reason: Commercial links removed

  8. #8
    daggers
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    Well done, finding out what you have. Why not try the US Embassy in London - Grosvenor Square - telling them the story so far and asking for their help in tracing the burial.
    D

  9. #9
    Knowledgeable and helpful keith9351's Avatar
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    Try The Madingley American cemetery in Cambridge, they may help.

    https://madingleyamericancemetery.inf...-madingley.htm

    https://www.abmc.gov/home.php

    Keith

  10. #10
    Terry Johnson
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    Garry,
    Harvey Dalton Johnson is my husband's brother. I have been doing some research on Harvey recently.
    He is buried in Atlantic County, New Jersey. The VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars) post on Mill Street in Northfield is named for Harvey Johnson. We have recently received Harvey's Canadian military records. Also have his American military records.
    Our daughter, Patricia, was a highschool exchange student inb Tamworth during the 50th anniversary. She attended the commerative ceremony in Walthalmstow along with her host parents - Steve and Sue Turner. Our family later visited Walthalmstow and had a special dinner in the YMCA building/ We were able to visit the memorial at the Warner Estate. I received a letter to advise that monument was put in storage in the local historical society building.

    From the VFW archives, I read a letter from Harvey's fiancee - Isabel Kahn. Isable and Harvey were engaged to be married during Christmas time 1942. In January 2010, I was able to to contasct Isabel who is 86 years old. She is an aritst now living in Canada and has 6 children. She relayed several memories of Harvey and I shared some pictures with her. Isable wrote down some memories of their time together.
    I am planning to write a story for the New Jersey Atlantic Yearbook later this year. (2010)
    I would be glad to share details of Harvey and his heroic deed.
    Although my husband, Paul Johnson, never met his brother, we are very proud of him.
    Harvey has living relatives: sister Eleanor Wilson in Nevada, brother Paul Johnson and sister Kathryn Skahan in Pennsylvania, sister - law, Norma Johnson in Northfield, New Jersey, cousins in New Jersey and Michigan and several nieces and nephews.
    Contact me at: terryvjohnson AT yahoo DOT com
    Last edited by Jan1954; 21-07-2010 at 7:36 PM. Reason: Email address edited to deter spammers

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