William Riley Lee....... HElp

[JamieG1782]

Also I found this.......

Warwick Place, St Mary Abbott Kensington London 1861 Census
Known as the Potteries (Visited by George Borrow)
Bendigo Hearn 1824 Chair Bottomer Herefordshire
Mary Hearn 1825 Chiswick Mx
Matilda Hearn 1856 Notting Hill
Joseph Hearn 1859 Notting Hill
General Hearn 1860 Notting Hill
*
Riley Lee 28 Brazier London
Rebecca Lee 27 London
John Lee 10 ?
Selene Lee 1851 Kent
Rhoda Lee 1854 Kent
Michael Lee 1857 Kent

Could William's Dad be Riley? & Thats where he gets his middle name?? It could make sense, also the pass down of the names Selene (Selina) & Rhoda again would make sense, at least to me anyway

But its just guesswork ..........

[christanel]

Also I found this.......

Warwick Place, St Mary Abbott Kensington London 1861 Census
Known as the Potteries (Visited by George Borrow)
Bendigo Hearn 1824 Chair Bottomer Herefordshire
Mary Hearn 1825 Chiswick Mx
Matilda Hearn 1856 Notting Hill
Joseph Hearn 1859 Notting Hill
General Hearn 1860 Notting Hill
*
Riley Lee 28 Brazier London
Rebecca Lee 27 London
John Lee 10 ?
Selene Lee 1851 Kent
Rhoda Lee 1854 Kent
Michael Lee 1857 Kent

Could William's Dad be Riley? & Thats where he gets his middle name?? It could make sense, also the pass down of the names Selene (Selina) & Rhoda again would make sense, at least to me anyway

But its just guesswork ..........

Oh Jamie this does look very promising doesn't it? Have you found them in later censuses? I'll take a look also. If we can find a certificate that is in the right time frame and area that is the only way to go.
The certificate is very clear isn't it but I still can't make out what was crossed out. However I think the 16 may be a number used by the registrar to indicate what type of mistake was made. I've put that badly but you know what I mean?
No father's name and occupation usually indicates illegitimacy but the middle name Riley is looking good as mother's did this sometimes. I wish my great great grandmother had with her 5 illegitimate kids.
I'll go take a look at the records.
Christina

[JamieG1782]

Oh Jamie this does look very promising doesn't it? Have you found them in later censuses? I'll take a look also. If we can find a certificate that is in the right time frame and area that is the only way to go.
The certificate is very clear isn't it but I still can't make out what was crossed out. However I think the 16 may be a number used by the registrar to indicate what type of mistake was made. I've put that badly but you know what I mean?
No father's name and occupation usually indicates illegitimacy but the middle name Riley is looking good as mother's did this sometimes. I wish my great great grandmother had with her 5 illegitimate kids.
I'll go take a look at the records.
Christina

No haven't found them yet on any other census, but i'm new to all this so still trying to work it all out as well as finding the information..

Thats what I thought although Rhoda & Selene/Selina may of been quite common names in romany families and in the general public the name Riley at that time doesn't seem to be so popular...........Or maybe I'm just hoping for a lead anyway i can find one!! HA HA

[christanel]

No haven't found them yet on any other census, but i'm new to all this so still trying to work it all out as well as finding the information..

Thats what I thought although Rhoda & Selene/Selina may of been quite common names in romany families and in the general public the name Riley at that time doesn't seem to be so popular...........Or maybe I'm just hoping for a lead anyway i can find one!! HA HA

Well I didn't have any luck finding any of them on the 1871 census before I had to abandon it to keeep an appointment.
You will be surprised at how many Selana's and Rhoda's there are in the country.
I was using ancestry and you can just put in a first name without any surname but it does help to narrow the list down by putting in a birth date. But no luck with any of them, it seems very unlikely that the transcriber or enumerator got the simple surname Lee wrong. But then again I haven't found a family with that looks anywhere near promising as yet. Will have to go on Freebmd to look for a possible birth for William Riley also.
Looking at the Riley Lee family again in 1861 it may be that Wiiliam's mother is part of this family structure and she named William after a brother or uncle or cousin. So maybe we have to find where they come together.
Christina

[ChristineR]

[image removed by Moderator - one is not allowed to post the image of a whole certificate due to copyright restrictions by GRO. ]

This is it, thanks for the extra info!! Do you think it would be worth trying to find his birth certificate and hope for info in the Fathers name box?

If ANYONE can shed more light on this it would be very much appreciated!!

And one again, Thanks so much for your help Christina

Sorry Jamie, had to remove the certificate image - you may post a link to photobucket or just upload the relevant section of the certificate to the forum. GRO strictly forbids posting images of whole certificates on the internet in their copyright.

[JamieG1782]

There you go thats the bit that is needed, BUT..........

Spoke to my Great Aunt today just in passing that I had Started researching the family, She told me with no prompting or mention from me that the Dads name was Riley, AND she has a picture of him with Rueben and His Mum!!!!! What Luck!! So I was on the right track and now have confirmation!

She's going to write down for me everything she can remember and sort out any certificates and photos she has

[JamieG1782]

Could someone do an ancestry lookup for me this is what it says in the search

1851 England Census
Census & Voter Lists

Name: Riley Lee
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Household schedule number: 77

Name: Riley Lee
Birth: abt 1826 - location
Residence: 1851 - city, Middlesex, England


Thanks I will get round to signing up when I have the money, hopefully end of month!!!!

[christanel]

1851 census HO107 piece 1542 folio 560 page 14
Bethnall green St Philips Tower Hamlets.
Riley Lee Head unmarried 25 skewer maker (Iron) born Tottenham
Roseanna Hearne unmarried 23 skewer maker born Harding Hertfordshire
Selina Lee daughter 2 born Hadley Kent.

That name Hearne I seem to recall seeing somewhere before in relation to the Lees.
I will wait to see what you get from your aunt before I go looking for more. How great to have someone with inside knowledge.
Still can't make out what the crossed out word is. Anybody else having a go?
Christina

[christanel]

Also I found this.......

Warwick Place, St Mary Abbott Kensington London 1861 Census
Known as the Potteries (Visited by George Borrow)
Bendigo Hearn 1824 Chair Bottomer Herefordshire
Mary Hearn 1825 Chiswick Mx
Matilda Hearn 1856 Notting Hill
Joseph Hearn 1859 Notting Hill
General Hearn 1860 Notting Hill
*
Riley Lee 28 Brazier London
Rebecca Lee 27 London
John Lee 10 ?
Selene Lee 1851 Kent
Rhoda Lee 1854 Kent
Michael Lee 1857 Kent

Could William's Dad be Riley? & Thats where he gets his middle name?? It could make sense, also the pass down of the names Selene (Selina) & Rhoda again would make sense, at least to me anyway

But its just guesswork ..........

Doh!!! Of course I did - on your posting of the 1861 census. So is Roseanna (from 1851 census) their daughter? Only trouble with this theory is that both Riley and Rebecca/Roseann have only aged 3/4 years between censuses. Back to the drawing board.
In England research is done when it is too cold, wet and windy to go out. Here it is too hot to go outside so research it is.
No she can't be their daughter because Bendigo is only 36. Sister maybe?
Christina

[ChristineR]

Still can't make out what the crossed out word is. Anybody else having a go?

At first glance I thought that it might have been Isaac, but it didn't look like that enlarged. I also wonder if the 16 is actually a 'U' - perhaps short for 'unknown' . There is a Latin word meaning illegitimate that I cannot recall at the moment, but then why is it crossed out.