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  1. #1
    jthair
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    Default No record of death

    I have been trying to obtain a death certificate for my GGG Grandmother Isabella Short (Nee Roxby) On her husband's headstone the first clue I had was "also Isabella wife of the above d. Aug.16th". Unfortunately the year was not legible. The last census she was on was 1851 living in Haswell Durham. I next found a parish record of a burial of an Isabella Short abode Haswell Durham 18 August 1851 Place Houghton-le-Spring Church St Michael and All Angels Durham.
    There were also a Robert Roxby and an Ann roxby buried there also, these were the names of her parents so things looked good. Two weeks ago I visited St Michael and All Angels and found the Roxby family stone. It stated Isabella wife of John Short and daughter of the above (Robert Roxby). Now I have found the parish record of her burial, and confirmation it is the person I am looking for but I have tried all lists and even have contacted various registrars in Durham to obtain a death certificate but can't get a listing. Does anyone have any idea on the next step?

    John

    I do hope she was dead when they buried her

  2. #2
    salcat
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    Though it's not quite Durham, and the date isn't quite right , this seems too much of a coincidence


    Deaths Mar 1851
    SHORT Isabella Newtle Tyne 25 274

    She could have died in Newcastle but been taken home for burial.

    You might have to invest in the certificate to prove or disprove this one

    Sally

  3. #3
    Knowledgeable and helpful
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    If the tombstone says she died in August her death couldn't be registered in the March quarter of the same year...

  4. #4
    Mutley
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    This is a real puzzle.
    As I understand it,
    a birth may not have been registered by the parents.
    a marriage may not have taken place, even when we though it should.
    but a death must have been registered to have a burial.

    She is not in the 3rd qrt of 1851 under Isabella Short on the full registers.

    Free BMD does seem to have the full compliment for Houghton le Spring.

    In 1851 there are 9 Isabella's - Roddam, Harrison, Heaviside, Taylor, Potts*, Raine*, Robson, Straughan and Wilde. (* = September). There is not a female Short.
    There is an odd one in Sept 1851 that says
    ST* and then just stars for first name and Volume and Page.

    The only Isabella Short for the whole year anywhere is the one Salcat found in Newcastle.

    Sorry....

  5. #5
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutley View Post
    Free BMD does seem to have the full compliment for Houghton le Spring.

    In 1851 there are 9 Isabella's - Roddam, Harrison, Heaviside, Taylor, Potts*, Raine*, Robson, Straughan and Wilde. (* = September). There is not a female Short.
    There is an odd one in Sept 1851 that says
    ST* and then just stars for first name and Volume and Page.
    My investigation leads me to the fact that the original scan which the FreeBMD transcriber used was a bad copy, with black blobs making the last six entries on the page almost illegible. A re-scan was done, and is obviously the page which the 'check' transcriber used.
    The entry is for
    Stoddard, Jane, Houghton le Spring, XXIV 131

    If you want to see the original scan page then you want the
    FreeBMD home page Click 'search images' and follow the links till you get 'Look for Deaths in September 1851, starting with S, page' and two boxes. From the drop-down menu in the top box select page 0063, JPEG format. If you then select 0063 re-scan you can see the difference in the quality of the scans.
    I've sent an entry correction to FreeBMD.
    Pam
    Last edited by Pam Downes; 18-07-2008 at 12:15 AM. Reason: Made an untrue statement because I didn't search correctly

  6. #6
    Mutley
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    Thanks Pam,
    I did find it, intended to return here, became waylaid or lost or engrossed and forgot.

    Sorry, that was naughty of me

    But thanks for sending in the correction also. Free BMD needs all the help it can get. It is doing sooooo well.

  7. #7
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
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    Ooh, random thought.
    Who erected the headstone? And when, i.e. how long after the deaths? How sure were they of the dates they gave? Did they bother to check what the mason carved? (As per the 'Lord she is thin'. "You've missed off an E". 'E, Lord she is thin' instead of 'Lord she is thine' joke.)

    John, I was going to ask if it might be possible for you to go back to the churchyard to see if the stone seemed newer than other ones erected for deaths about the same time, but having checked your location perhaps the answer might be 'no'.
    Pam

  8. #8
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
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    Interesting that the online NBI at findmypast gives Isabella's age as 48 when in the 1841 and 1851 censuses she's 32 and 42 respectively.
    Pam

  9. #9
    jthair
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Downes View Post

    John, I was going to ask if it might be possible for you to go back to the churchyard to see if the stone seemed newer than other ones erected for deaths about the same time, but having checked your location perhaps the answer might be 'no'.
    Pam
    Yes it would be hard to get back just now. When I arrived at St Michael and All Saints my heart sank with the first few stones I examined, they were worn smooth. One thing about the Church graveyard was it had filled up and they consecrated a new Churchyard on the 4th of September, 1854 which was used until 1970. This is the reason I checked the Church graveyard and not the Houghton Hillside cemetery. My visit this year was mainly to visit family and I only spent a week in England then drove up to Scotland for the last week. I only had time for one day of research and I had other places to visit.
    I have checked the various lists and also found the bad and good copy.
    When it comes to her age I have in the Bishop's Transcripts for the Parish of Washington, Isabella Roxby Born May 3 1809 Baptized Aug 20 1809 2nd daughter of Robert Roxby native of Chester le Street by his wife Anne Wilson native of Chester le Street.
    I have two transcripts of Isabella Short's burial information, one from Find my Past and the other from Durham Records Online. Unfortunately the BTs online do not cover 1851. I will have to order it from the LDS.
    I did get a photo of the stone but as it was the middle of the day it will take a bit of work to see if there is anything I missed when I transcribed it. The stone is also damaged and there is some wording missing.

    Thanks for the input
    John

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