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Thread: CHR and BAP

  1. #1
    jespa
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    Default CHR and BAP

    Does any one know the difference between the two? These are examples of what the register contains. The birth date is obvious and the registration is The Stamp Duties Act of 1783 to raise monies to pay for the American War of Independence. I have no idea why there is a christening and a baptism.


    17 Feb 1799 Sarah, d. of James and Sarah D***s chr. born 30 Dec 1798 , bap. 14 Jan 1799 , reg. 17 Feb 1799.
    30 Dec 1799 Elizabeth, d. of James and Mary C****D chr. born and bap

  2. #2
    Jan1954
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    The Cambridge online dictionary defines the two thus:

    Christening:
    a Christian ceremony at which a baby is given a name and made a member of the Christian Church

    Baptism:
    a Christian ceremony in which a person has water poured on their head, or is covered briefly in water, in order to show that they have become a member of the Christian Church

    However, just to add to the confusion, my great grandmother, who was born in May 1855, was christened in the Parish Church in December of that year. This was recorded on the parish church's baptismal records. Then, in 1876, she was baptised as a member of the Baptist Church.

  3. #3
    jespa
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    Yeah I'm baptist and I have been 'dedicated' but not baptised. Thanks I think It helps.

  4. #4
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    Oxford English Dictionary: "Christening": The action or ceremony of baptizing, baptism.

    In other words, there is no distinction between the two terms (I assume the examples are from the Church of England)

    See this message for a longer discussion:

    https://groups.google.com/group/soc.g...e0bee282f98c88

    I'm not convinced that the examples do demonstrate a distinction - I would really want to see the original.

  5. #5
    Jan1954
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    Peter, I agree with you entirely.

    In the Church of England, the two terms seem to be interchangeable.

    In the example of my great grandmother, she was born into a family who belonged to the CofE. All of the children were baptised/christened in the parish church. They were all married there as well - including her.

    It was only after she had been married for a couple of years (and had a son christened/baptised at the parish church) that she and my great grandfather "converted" to being Baptists. All subsequent children were only baptised in the Baptist chapel - usually when they were teenagers.

  6. #6
    jespa
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    Peter, the register is from 1658 but this is from volume 6 1799-1812. All that I can say is up until 1800 some are chr. born, bap., and reg. Some just chr and some just Bap.
    I feel that Jan1954 is right and it is something to do with wetting the babies head.
    Thank-you both for your help.

  7. #7
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    The Church of England
    The Baptism Service
    Frequently asked questions


    Q. What's the difference between a baptism and a christening?

    A. None, they are just different words for the same thing.



    https://www.cofe.anglican.org/lifeeve...tml#difference

  8. #8
    Ken Boyce
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    Peter is correct the two are interchangable but Baptism is the more formal name for the act

    See https://www.cofe.anglican.org/lifeeve.../sectionb.html

    and also insert Christening in their engine

    I remember growing up hearing such phrases " I baptise thee in the name of the father ........" never "I christen thee .....)

    The few non-transcripted registers I have on CD refer to Register of Baptism xxxx to yyyy The transcribed ones interchange the words and do not carry the original pages so its anyones guess how the transcriber used them

    Regards

  9. #9
    Ken Boyce
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    I see Peter types faster than I

    Here is an interesting ref to the King James Book of Common Prayer

    https://www.wmcarey.edu/carey/bcp/bcp.htm

  10. #10
    Ken Boyce
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    The original posting stated the examples came from a 'register of Stamp Duty"

    This piqued my interest and I found this ref

    Under the provisions of this act, all baptism, marriage and burial entries in each parish register were subject to a tax of 3d (old pence). Church ministers were empowered to collect the duty, and were allowed to keep 10% of this fee as compensation for their trouble. Refusal to pay carried a fine of five pounds.
    This was a deeply unpopular tax, and many clergymen were sympathetic to the plight of their parishioners, and as paupers were exempt from this tax, it is not uncommon for family history researchers and genealogists to find that the number of supposed poor people within a parish has increased many times above normal during these years until the act was finally repealed in 1794. Such entries in a parish register are annotated with either the letter "P." or "Pauper". If a family could not claim exemption then it was not unusual for them simply not to bother, and this would result in a number of adult "late" baptisms during the following decades

    Possibly the register viewed by Jespa was a record possibly (a transcript) of stamp duty transactions not a Parish Register in the normal sense or the incumbent was not following the rules for keeping BMD records

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