Strange thing in inventory

[MythicalMarian]

I must go and get my glasses I'm starting to read thing in this thread thats not there.

"He lists two bullocks separately at £4 13s 1d the pair"

LOL

Well, you see, this reminds me of how I remember that Bullocks are castrated! I always chant to myself 'Bullocks have no b*llocks'.

And there you were, thinking I was a lady

[BeeE586]

Over the years I have helped to transcribe hundreds of sets of 16th and 17th century Probate documents for the area of north east Derbyshire where I live and it was rare indeed for a bull to be listed. A more common practice was for a 'Parish Bull', i.e some sort of communal ownership by the parish or manor. Obviously, someone would need to house and care for the animal but it would not be part of his personal estate. Equally obviously, sooner or later the bull would come to the end of its active life and a replacement would be needed. Could the animal in the inventory be the 'second bull', i.e. an immature animal being raised to replace the current bull as and when required. What is the length of active life of a servicing bull ?

It would be interesting to know which part of the country the inventory was from, what was the common practice in that community regarding the size of herd kept etc. If a man has only one or two beasts to keep a bull would be uneconomic.

Regarding castration, surely this was done on young animals; I wouldn't fancy the chances of anyone trying to perform the act on a fully grown and mature beast.

Eileen

[vic1]

Just athought but prehaps its a very old bull who has had his day and got to belligerent so been castrated. bulls can get very agressive. don't know if they castrated as a matter of course then but would certainly explain why the bullocks which would be younger cattle were worth more as future breeding stock.

[MarkJ]

A bullock is a castrated male I believe, so its breeding potential is nil
I suspect they would be worth more because the meat would be of higher quality than that of a tough old one.

Mark

[Jack Richards]

I'm getting worried reading this thread, I keep coming over with "hot flushes" -like the bull(s) that are being mentioned, I too am getting older and can be a bit aggressive, especially if I get excited watching sport.

From now on, I am going to be on the look out for any person carrying a tool that might cause an injury. Also, I am going to become more docile, well I will try!

Apologies for being frivolous on a serious thread, but my eyes are weeping just thinking.

Regards

Jack

[MarkJ]

Don't worry Jack - I think all the guys have been cringing when reading this thread

Mark

[ChristineR]

Google-books brought up a book about Yorkshire Words and Sayings

SEG or BULL-SEG: A castrated bull

Using that as a search term brought up more info. It seems the ox was a castrated bull of a particular species, used as a draught animal. And this might be why there is a distinction between this bull segge and the bullocks.

ChristineR

[BeeE586]

Just out of interest I looked amongst my transcripts and found an inventory of 1614 where a bull is mentioned. It was for Thomas Sale, late parson of Eckington, total value of estate £345 3s 2d - a considerable amount for the time. Unfortunately, the bull is not priced individually but as

It(em) viij Kyne and one bull xvij li ............ that is £17

He also has

It(em) iiij little heffers and a bull calfe v li ..... that is £5

As comparison, in an inventory of 1613, also for Eckington fouer kine were valued at £8 6s 8d and 2 heffers at £3 16s 8d. Unfortunately, no mention is ever made of the quality of the beasts other than young or old so a true comparison is not easy.

The quoted price in the inventory mentioned for a probably castrated bull does seem excessive by these standards.

Eileen

[MarkJ]

I guess the excessive price reflects the work which the bull would carry out. Pulling ploughs etc would make it the equivalent of an edible tractor by todays standards I expect! Once it is too old to work, it would be useful (if a bit chewy!) food...
So its usefulness is reflected in the price.. Even today in some countries, your wealth is based on the number of work animals you have - camels, oxen etc.
It has been a most interesting thread - from discovering a new term in the "segge" to thinking about the reasons behind the seemingly overpriced animal.

Mark

[MythicalMarian]

Thanks for everyone's input on this - and I can now officially put us all out of our misery. I have heard back from the guys at Farming-Direct website and it was the Welsh farmers who knew of this term (the will is from Cheshire). A bull segge is indeed a castrated bull, and as much as it brings tears to your eyes, men, he would not have been castrated before puberty - as a bullock would, for instance. He probably was used for draught, too. The farmer grew a heck of a lot of crops and had various ploughs and carts. He kept five horses altogether, including two colts.

The high price of this particular farmer's stock may be reflected in the fact that he was a wealthy yeoman farmer and may well have been able to afford better stock than some of his contemporaries - although this is only speculation on my part. Interestingly enough, the will was later contested, so it may be that the accountants who had valued his inventory inflated the price of some items. Believe me - I'm not going into the contestation of this will - we'd be here all year!

So, thanks again, everyone. And all you irritable and aggressive gentlemen of a certain age can relax now....