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    Question Spanish Blood in Irish Ancestors?

    My dad - William Bradley -seemed to believe that there was Spanish blood in our ancestry - (perhaps from The Armada or even from trade between Ireland and Spain.) We may even have Jewish blood too.
    Dad's mother (Mary Harrington) came from Kinsale Cork and ( I think) his father (James Bradley) came from County Mayo, Eire. How could I find out?
    Dad died long ago and his own father died in WW1 (WW1 records indicate his father came from Co Mayo - but I can't even be sure that we have the right man). It's difficult to find out and I would go to Ireland to research birth and baptism records if I didn't live on the other side of the world (Perth Western Australia).
    This is the first time I have asked for help this way although I did find a long lost Canadian cousin by putting my (maternal) gradfather's name in a Google search!!
    I live in hope.
    Thank you anyone out there who can give me some hints.
    Mary S

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    Brick wall demolition expert! ChristineR's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum Mary. There are lots of helpful people here.

    Did your dad's parents marry in Australia?

    If so, then the marriage certificate could prove valuable, depending on which State in Australia and time, it may have their birth places and parents names.


    Do you have a full copy of your dad's birth certificate? as that might also say when and where his parents married.

    There is often a grain of truth in all family stories, but sometimes not what we would expect.

    ChristineR

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary S (WA) View Post
    My dad - William Bradley -seemed to believe that there was Spanish blood in our ancestry [Irish, from Counties Cork and Mayo]. How could I find out?
    Hi, Mary. Much of your story rings familiar, as a close friend’s family, also from County Mayo (CORISTINE / MACORRISTON, CASHORE / CARSHORE, DILLON, ACTON) has a similar tradition, which we’ve tried to research. There is a historical basis for such a migration.
    More than a few new Irishmen and some Scots as well were created around August 1588 from the remnants of Admiral Sidonia’s Spanish Armada. After defeats by Lord Admiral Howard (he of the fireboats strategy), Sir Francis Drake and a horrendous storm, Sidonia still had 110 of his original 117 ships. By then near the coast of Holland, he was inadequately provisioned and carrying too many wounded to re-engage so he sailed North, intending to round the top of Ireland and then sail South back home to Spain. He did make it Northwards, but after making his Westward turn, fierce weather struck again and again and he lost 28 more ships on the Scots and Irish coasts. Over 6000 Spanish drowned or were executed after making it to shore (the British Deputy in Ireland declared it an invasion), but some slipped by and found refuge, often with the help of local Irish families. In his excellent book To Rule the Waves (2004, Harper pub.), Arthur Herman describes this accidental migration and mentions the MCSWEENEY family of Tirconnell and MCDONNELL of Antrim in this regard.

    Irish Family history, particularly if you’re researching it from afar, is quite a challenge, so Christine’s advice on building your tree back into Ireland step-by-step with as many source documents as you can locate is especially important. If you want to locate old birth, marriage and death records containing your ancestors’ surnames, the Irish Family History Foundation now has many of these (almost 40 million to date) available online and Mayo is one of the counties whose records are available. The IFHF offers an excellent service, although you'll need to register and the certificates once located must be purchased. Good hunting!
    Last edited by Guest; 17-04-2008 at 1:26 AM. Reason: Commercial link

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    Very interesting thread.

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    Hi

    I have heard that there is also Spanish people with Irish blood and several streets in Madrid have Irish names like O'Farrell Street and so on. I read about a Spanish man with the surname Lynch which is Irish.

    Ben

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    Smile Spanish Armada Accidental Invasion of Ireland

    Hi

    There was a history programme on TV once, which said that when the Spanish officers in charge of the Armada realised that Philip of Spain, their king, would be very angry with them, having lost the ships because of a bad navigational decision, and not in battle, they hatched a plan to deceive him and save their necks. They decded to tell him that they lost the ships in battle. The difficulty for them then was the survivors who swam ashore to the west coast (of Ireland). So the officers went ashore and looked for any survivors, and slaughtered them on finding any. The Irish peasants took pity on the persecuted ratings and hid any they found. After their persecutors had gone, they settled there and inter married the local colleens. This is why there are Irish people from the West coast areas who have jet black hair. I am from such a family. We've always known we had Spanish blood.

    So if the English in Ireland deemed it to be an invasion too, and killed a good few also, it's a wonder any survived at all!

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    Hi

    I think some Irish also went to France in the Wild Geese movements as well. It was somehwere like NW France.

    There is probably quite a few Spanish and French people with Irish ancestry.

    Ben

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    Default Irish Blood

    Very interesting comments.

    The Irish surnames in spain and france still exist indeed, take for example "Chateau Michael Lynch" wine range from France or even "Hennessy Cognac". Moran is scattered here and there in Spain

    There was a Uruguayan footballer that played with A.C Milan a few years ago called "Fabian O'Neill"

    i come from Co. Mayo (Ireland) and have links to Donegal, there is definite Spanish blood in my genelogical links.

    The flight of the Earls also exiled many clanns to the continent

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    Default You bet we're Iberian - this dna study says more Iberian than Celt

    The Irish - more Spanish than Celtic?

    Scientists have concluded that the Celts did not invade Ireland en masse, nor did they replace an earlier group.

    Despite the widely held belief that the Irish are descended from Celts who invaded Ireland about 2,500 years ago, a 2004 genetic research study at Trinity College, Dublin (TCD) appears to argue against it.

    The Celtic cultural heritage in Ireland is prolific and informs the common perceptions and beliefs about the national identity and its origins. From traditional cultural sources in language, legend and literature the Celtic influence is strong and can also be found in contemporary culture such as Enya and the Afro Celt Sound System. The research however suggests that our blood if not also some (at least) of our culture can or should be attributed to wider origins: Spain, Portugal, Scandinavia and North Africa.

    The study, conducted by Dr. Dan Bradley and Brian McEvoy, a Ph.D student conducted this genetic study with the support of the Irish government to determine “whether there was a large incursion by Celtic people 2,500 years ago” as is widely believed.

    The scientists compared the DNA samples of 200 volunteers from around Ireland with a genetic database of 8,500 individuals from around Europe. (The Celts came from Central Europe stretching as far as Hungary).

    They found that the Irish samples matched those around Britain and the Pyrenees in Spain. There were some matches in Scandinavia and parts of North Africa.

    The scientists concluded that ‘the Irish’ genetic makeup stems from the onset of an ice-age around 15,000 years ago that forced prehistoric man back into Spain, Italy and Greece, which were still fairly temperate. When the ice started melting again around 12,000 years ago, people followed the retreating ice northwards as areas became hospitable again.

    The TCD study produced a map of Europe with contours linking places that are genetically similar. One contour goes around the edge of the Atlantic touching Wales, Scotland, Ireland, and includes Galicia in Spain as well as the Basque region.

    Some archaeologists also doubt that there was a Celtic invasion because few of their artifacts have been found in Ireland.

    “The primary genetic legacy of Ireland seems to have come from people from Spain and Portugal after the last ice age.” said McEvoy. “They seem to have come up along the coast through Western Europe and arrived in Ireland, Scotland and Wales. It’s not due to something that happened 2,500 years ago with Celts.” We have a much older genetic legacy.

    The findings are published in The American Journal of Human Genetics at the University of Chicago.

    Does this finally help explain the ‘dark Irish’ phenomenon?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomBradley View Post
    The Irish - more Spanish than Celtic?

    The research however suggests that our blood if not also some (at least) of our culture can or should be attributed to wider origins: Spain, Portugal, Scandinavia and North Africa.

    The study, conducted by Dr. Dan Bradley and Brian McEvoy, a Ph.D student conducted this genetic study with the support of the Irish government to determine “whether there was a large incursion by Celtic people 2,500 years ago” as is widely believed.

    The scientists compared the DNA samples of 200 volunteers from around Ireland with a genetic database of 8,500 individuals from around Europe. (The Celts came from Central Europe stretching as far as Hungary).

    They found that the Irish samples matched those around Britain and the Pyrenees in Spain. There were some matches in Scandinavia and parts of North Africa.

    The scientists concluded that ‘the Irish’ genetic makeup stems from the onset of an ice-age around 15,000 years ago that forced prehistoric man back into Spain, Italy and Greece, which were still fairly temperate. When the ice started melting again around 12,000 years ago, people followed the retreating ice northwards as areas became hospitable again.

    The TCD study produced a map of Europe with contours linking places that are genetically similar. One contour goes around the edge of the Atlantic touching Wales, Scotland, Ireland, and includes Galicia in Spain as well as the Basque region.

    Some archaeologists also doubt that there was a Celtic invasion because few of their artifacts have been found in Ireland.

    “The primary genetic legacy of Ireland seems to have come from people from Spain and Portugal after the last ice age.” said McEvoy. “They seem to have come up along the coast through Western Europe and arrived in Ireland, Scotland and Wales. It’s not due to something that happened 2,500 years ago with Celts.” We have a much older genetic legacy.

    The findings are published in The American Journal of Human Genetics at the University of Chicago.

    Does this finally help explain the ‘dark Irish’ phenomenon?

    I am of Black Irish descent and took a great interest in this study when Trinity College published it. From north to south, most of the west coast of Ireland (and inland a fair bit at some points,) was home to the dark-haired Irish. When you think about it, the numbers of Spaniards that wound up on the shores of Ireland at the time of the Armada, simply could not account for such a widespread genetic impact on the population. There simply weren't the numbers of them.

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