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  1. #1
    renwick
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    Unhappy Help I get Probate instead of Wills

    I have sent for a copy of wills of my ancestors but i end up with the probate instead which does not the information in that much detail. A friend actually had a copy of his ancestors will, had received the probate but then was contacted by a relative and obtained a copy of his relatives which had much more informative but he is not sure how his relative got it.
    Please can anyone tell me can I get the will rather than the probate and go about about it, as I thought and applied for a will both times and yet only had the probate. Or are wills destroyed after so long and only the probate obtainable. I have problems both on my own and my husbands side which the will would probably be able to clear.

  2. #2
    ChrisKelly
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    Start here:
    National Archives

  3. #3
    renwick
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    Hi
    Many thanks but I have tried that and it is where I applied for what I thought was a will but wa actually the probate.

  4. #4
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    I think you had better be a bit more specific - names, dates, places, court, what you received, what you were expecting, etc because I'm afraid I don't understand precisely what the problem is.

  5. #5
    renwick
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    Hi Peter

    I am sorry that I have not been specific enough but I am still trying to sort out the best way of tying things up and have tried to ask specific questions without rambling on too much. Below I have given the facts as I know them though I am not sure exactly what courts where involved as I cannot find exact information at the present time

    I applied for the will of George Piffe from the National Archive site.

    What I got back was a document that said the will was proved in London in July 1802 and had the basic facts of who the the money was to be distributed too. The will was from George Piffe a farmer in Down Hatherley Gloucestershire.

    I have also got a probate some years ago from 1940's, which I believe I had to send to first from the original solicitors then to York for believing it was a copy of the original will in both cases they sent me only the probate, of a relative from West Hartlepool Durham refering to my great grandparents William Welch or Herridge again giving monetary value but not exact facts such as why they married in one name(being his mother's maiden name even though his birth was registered as his fathers family name) and had seveal children then changed their name back to his original name and had several more children in that name. I friend has shown me a probate document such as I have got and also a will he had obtained for his relative, and naturally there where far more facts and information on the will than the probate.

    The probate does not give enough information for me to verify certain facts and I hope that the wills might give more information to clarify things such as how one person can have two names.

    What I want to know is can I obtain copies of the original will if so where from, or is it only the probate that is actually kept on record.

  6. #6
    ChrisKelly
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    I'm no expert on wills, but when I've sent for a will from TNA I've got the will. Maybe you've been unlucky. You've probably read it already, but there are further explanations about exactly what's held here: https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/c...sLeafletID=168

    It might be necessary to contact the original record office, which in your case would be Gloucestershire. If you search their database here, there is a will for George Piff(e).
    Good luck

  7. #7
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    I assume you're talking about PROB 11/1412 which is said to consist of three pages. PROB 11 is supposed to contain court copies of proved wills. I'd be rather surprised if there wasn't a will in the downloaded document.

    Perhaps you could make the PDF available on a website somewhere and we could have a look at it and provide some comments for you.

  8. #8
    Geoffers
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    The documents sent by TNA often contain parts of more than one will. The end of one will - the note mentioning where and when Probate was granted may appear at the top of the first page which you have downloaded. This relates to the will before that of George PIFFE.

    Scroll down until you find the name George PIFFE in the margin. This should be the start of his will - the one you want.

    Wills typically commence with an introduction which reads something like.........

    1. In the Name of God amen, the (date written out in full) 1801, This is the last will and testament of me George PIFFE farmer in Down Hatherley in the county of Gloucester........

    2. This is the last Will and Testament of me George PIFFE of Down Hatherley in the County of Gloucester being weak of body but in perfect memory.............

    3. I George PIFFE of the parish of Down Hatherley in the county of Gloucester farmer do make this my last will and testament in the manner following..........

    After several beqeausts, the will being witnessed, you should at the foot of the will find details of where and when probate was granted. The word PROBATE might be written in large letters first, or THIS WILL WAS PROVED........and then details of where and to whom probate was granted.

    As Peter mentioned, let us have the URL you were sent by TNA, to download the document and one of us will have a look - if you get stuck reading it, we can give a hand there too.

  9. #9
    MythicalMarian
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    Quote Originally Posted by renwick View Post
    Hi Peter

    I applied for the will of George Piffe from the National Archive site.

    What I got back was a document that said the will was proved in London in July 1802 and had the basic facts of who the the money was to be distributed too. The will was from George Piffe a farmer in Down Hatherley Gloucestershire.
    It sounds very much like you have an Inventory here, rather than the will - which may not have survived. Is there a listing of goods too? I have several Inventories where the will hasn;t survived, and they amount to a list of goods and chattels plus a creditors' list.

    Could this possibly be the case here?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MythicalMarian View Post
    It sounds very much like you have an Inventory here
    This will was proved in 1802 - a period when inventories are rare. PROB 11, the series that is available for download, contains court copies of proved wills.

    Any inventories for this period will be elsewhere, probably in PROB 31.

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