Greers of Ontario, from Ireland

[JLGreer]

Now that I have introduced myself, I would like to put forward a hypothesis I am working on, for while trying to trace my Greer lineage back through Canada to Ulster, I have built a database of every Greer/Greir/Grier/Greear I could find in Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, And Nova Scotia, and some in the New England area for the period of the late 1700s to the late 1800s. in my search for my immediate line I have pondered this theory below- are the familes of early Ontario Greers immediately related, I have searched for each one of them to connect them back to Ireland, severlal I have proven but several I have had no such luck on. In my notes I had a loose family of Greers from Ireland, and not until I realised I had the family of Thomas Greer who married Ellen Maria MacDonald and migrated to Ontario in my database, did this give some light to my theory...had the other brothers and sister of this family also relocated to Canada?

from my notes-

from a WorldConnect source, Willaim Greer's children with Ann(1765-1811) were John (b abt 1765), William Greer (b ABT 1786), Susannah Greer (b ABT 1790), 3 unnamed daughters born 1792, 1795, and 1796 (I feel that any of these could be sons), Ann Greer (b abt 1799), and Joseph Greer (b abt 1802), the children of William Greer with Margaret (1770-1833) are listed as Margaret Greer (b abt 1812), and Thomas Greer (b 1815) who married Ellen Maria MacDonald and resided in Ontario.

here is my working thesis on the above children from my notes-

I've been piecing this puzzle together for the last few months and at the present all the pieces are falling into place nicely, the one link that the family info from WorldConnect provides is the one marriage given for the son Thomas Greer who married Ellen Maria McDonald and this family lived in Ontario in 1851:

1851 Albion Twp, Peel County
Copyright (c)2005, Mary Crandall, OntarioGenWeb's Census Project (https://ontariocensus.rootsweb.com)
Transcriber: Mary Crandall
Proofreader: Angela Whitehead
LAC # C-11746
LDS # 349233
District: Peel
District No: 28
Sub-District: Albion
Sub-District No: 268



Greer Thomas farmer Ireland Illegible 35 m m x
Greer Ellen blank Illegible 28 f m x
Greer Mary blank Illegible 10 f s x
Greer Margret blank Illegible 7 f s x
Greer George blank Illegible 5 m s x
Greer Thomas blank Illegible 3 m s x
Greer John blank Illegible 1 m s x
McDonald Mary blank Illegible 74 f s x
Obrien Michal blank Illegible 19 m s x

These are, I believe , the children of William Greer via Ann(1765-1811)& Margaret (1770-1833 m. 1811)-John Greer born ABT 1785 (I've found no info as of yet), William Greer born ABT 1786 (I've found no info as of yet), Susannah Greer born ABT 1790( again no info yet), Possibly child- George Greer born 1792 m. Margaret 'Mary' Dunbar(b. 1800) in 1834 ( her second marriage, Dunbar is her late husbands name) Mathew Greer born 1796 m Susanna Henderson in 1827, James Greer born 1797 m. Sarah Dewert in 1827 and later Rebecca Craig (probably around 1836), Ann Greer born 1799 m. Joseph Thompson (b. 1790) in 1825, Joseph Greer born 1801/02 m Sally Ann Armstrong in 1827, Margaret Greer born 1812 m. Thomas Crosson (b. 1803) in 1834, Thomas Greer Born 1815(d. 1876) m. Mary Welch(d. 1834)in 1832 and later Ellen Maria McDonald.
(source: South-Central Ontario Baptism, Burial & Marriage provided vital information for these marriages, the birthdates are gleamed from later census records)

The above is a working thesis of the early pioneering Greer families of Ontario, one will note that the marriages of 1825-1828 are uncanny to say the least, but by pure luck I happened on the family at WorldConnect (at present, it's the only source I have found with parents for any of them) that had all of these children of William's names in the proper sequence to line up with the names of the Greers who all got married at or around the same time. Furthermore, the one child with decendancy in this family info WAS a family of the early Ontario area...Thomas and Ellen Maria McDonald. Another note, the family info has three unnamed daughters between the Susannah and Ann, with the birth dates lining up with in a year or two of the three children I have allotted , that being George(1792 exact date), Mathew(1796 date was 1794), and James (1797 was 1796), these are of course sons, but the date of their marriages and the proximity to the other descendants was to uncanny for me not to include for the time being until otherwise proven, that they were the missing unnamed children.

again the above children of William with Ann and with Margaret, are hypothetical (thats is, unsourced, unproven), but... they are Greer families who appear in the early Ontario records

welcoming any observations
thanks again
J.L.Greer

[v.wells]

From what I know and I may be proven wrong World Connect is a compilation of various databases which are not on the whole sourced.

LDS or www.familysearch.org is a good place to start for pre-1837. If the info is sourced, Batch files are provided and Source notes tell you which parish to contact for further info.

Also the 1901 and 1911 Irish census are now online at https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/. Do you know the Irish Counties the Greer's originated from? I may well be asking questions that you already know the answers too.

It appears (to me anyway) that you are attempting to create a databank of all Greer's - perhaps by googling Greer family tree you may come up with new information. There is also a Thumbtack Note on the Canadian forum that is an excellent source of resources for Canadian genealogy. Findmypast.com has passenger shipping lists. By googling ship manifests you might find something.

Not all those with the same name are related. There are a lot of people with my surname in my town and none of them are remotely related to me. Some people changed their names from the unfamiliar to the familiar. There are also variations eg: Grierson - son of Grier, Gruyere, the list goes on. People from foreign countries changed names to avoid persecution or prosecution. Some couldn't read or write and got stuck with a name someone (who could write) dreamed up! Your Greer families could just be coincidentally in the same province around the same time and some could indeed be related to each other. GENUKI is another good source for Irish county information.

I probably haven't helped a whole lot - Sorry

[JLGreer]

No need to be sorry Venessa,

You make Valid points

I agree with you

I have been sourcing as many of these Greers of Ontario. These are but a few. The coincidence is perhaps just that. and WorldConnect is a horrid place to refer to for source information, second only to OneWorldTree.

These families do tie together, and they are from the first wave of Greers who settled Ontario, arriving about 1825, save for one or two fronteirsmen named Greer/grier who were scouting the are in the late 1700s.


I have a heck of a time trying to resource in Ireland, but I try to do it all on the cheap and have yet to hire someone to search the records I know are in PRONI. I may just just fly there and visit for myself soon.

I have been scouring the internet for over a year trying to source these specific families ( I probably spend about 15 hours a week on average doing research, it's become an addiction), only that one hit of William Greer keeps popping up. Several times it appears I may have a family tree with a Greer who matches the correct birthdates, but only to find that person sourced elswhere and having descendants etc who are also sourced.

I am hoping anyone out there can claim at least one or more of these Greers I mentioned in the OP, just so I can rule out the hypothesis...in fact thats my problem, I keep trying to rule it out...its TOOO convenient, but nothing. its negative space, suggesting something is there.

The Greers I mentioned above in the OP are all sourced, save for William Greer (b abt 1760 ) and his two wives, I just have not been able to link them to any parents yet.

the biggest problem with Greer/Greir/Grier/Greerson/Greere/Greear/Grayson/Grierson/etc research in North America is, as far as I can tell, there has been little effort or inroads into Canada, and most of the decendants stick with the "James Greer the Immigrant" theory being the source of all the Greers(etc) in the Americas, which is hogwash...there were several other ancestors who migrated to the Americas who tie into the Grierson( of Dumfrieshire, Lag, Barjarg, Capenoch, Nether Keir, etc) lineage in several different areas. Which is why I have been building a database of the ones who migrated along the northern US border and into Canada.

but I digress.

thank you for responding, I welcome any advice or information, I also openly share any of the information I have come upon. Its been my endeavor to find these ancestors so future generations will know of them.

J.L.Greer

[JLGreer]

Bleh,
I forgot to answer your question


I am not certain the county they hail from. I always felt it was Armagh, or Tyrone, its something lost in my ton of notes somewhere but sticks in the back of my mind.

I've been searching North Ireland for traces of them, I recently have been looking at a William Greer, Alexander Greer, Thomas Greer, and John Greer who all resided together in Mullalish(sp?), county Armagh, on the Registry of Freeholders for Armagh, in 1829. I would be interested in knowing more on these families.

[v.wells]

Please check the Canadian resources thread. I know I live in Canada and have been basically raised Canadian and should know a lot, but (I was born in England) my research is totally English/Irish/Scots - I have only just started the Irish leg and as you say it is slow going. I get brain drain easily after researching my lot! And it is not easy when doing research from a different country. Another idea is to check out Genesreunited. It is a ppcontact site unless you get a sub which may be worth it if you get a lot of hot hits. I only offer some suggestions. There are others on the forum who will see this thread and offer some real solid leads as they are more clever at the type of thing that you are trying to do which is a one name study. I'm not coming up with any lightbulb moments!

[JLGreer]

Good idea!

thanks I had not looked at the CD things, so much information/links here to absorb I keep getting sidetracked.

had not heard of Genesreunited, thanks for that

I have been all over the Canada websites, well as much as I can from Australia ( I am originally from the Seattle area) where I live now. If only I had been nitten by the bug when i was traveling the states! I lived in Virginia for a few years and often went to Pennsylvania, though never had any reason to travel to Toronto just a skip away, but I certainly would have now!

cheers

[v.wells]

Do you have access to ancestry...uk.? There are a several Greer trees in your timeline,
the main one is William Greer b 1765 , Dungannon, Tyrone, Ireland parents James Greer and Sarah Delap. It goes back to 1645. The tree is sourced and public. There are some that are OWT unsourced so discount them but use them for info - prove the association before you accept and don't add them into a tree if you have one. I usually print the page if I need the info.

[v.wells]

There is anothe 1 Lists William Greer and Margaret b 1765 Co Down,Ireland. and another one William Greer 1779, Ireland m Margaret Speake 3 attached records and sources. there's at least 3-5 pages of trees that mention William Greer. There is also a tree for Thomas Greer to Ellen Maria MacDonald from Co Down to Ontario with a whack of children. tree owner is lazieirene - is that you?

[JLGreer]

No I am not Lazieirene, But I have read that tree and it tied into my info, I believe Thomas(b.1815) may well be a brother to my ancester Joseph greer(b. 1802)who married Sarah "sally' Ann Armstrong in 1827.

I do have access to Ancestry UK but I think its ancestry.au that has the ireland records i need, which i do not have access to at this time. I may be wrong, I have had my nose stuck in Ontario records for the last 8 monthes.

Its ironic, I just stumbled on those IGI batch files for William and Ann, and William and Margaret, last night, another irony is way back when i first started looking into my tree I made a note of that same william to Ann and it had since been buried in the bottom of the 'too hard basket'.

let me use this as a sounding board now that I am here, I'm gonna just ramble it out from my notes and try to logic my way through it, bear with me folks-

So now I am to determine if a) they are the same William, and b) why does the source from Lurgan Quakers( owned by Joyce Parsons) have that William Greer ( b. 1765 of James and Sarah Delap) married to Elizabeth Bell in 1799... How can both be sourced unless William married 3 times? granted William who married Margaret in 1815 may not be the same as the one who married Ann in 1785, then did he Marry Elizabeth Bell? if so Ann was alive till 1812 according to the Thomas and Ellen MAria records, hardly cricket. the Lurgan Quaker records say 'William died without issue" was it because he had no issue with Elizabeth Bell?

Anyhow, I did match up some of the Greers with IGI files-

I will post it in a reply to this

[JLGreer]

here goes-

John GRIER- Chr: 09 SEP 1785 Moira, Down, Ireland parents William & Ann
William GRIER- Chr:14 MAY 1789 Donaghmore, Tyrone, Ireland- to William & Ann
Sussanah GREER-Chr: 03 OCT 1790 Moira, Down, Ireland- to Wm & Ann
Thomas GREER- Birth: 1815 Moira, Down, Ireland- To William & Margaret
>Death: 14 AUG 1876
>Spouse: Ellen Maria McDonald
>Marriage: 1840 , Peel, Ontario (no Batch file just user submission)
Andrew GREER-Christening: 10 MAR 1816 Donaghmore, Tyrone, Ireland- To William and Mary
(unk. male) GRIER-Christening: 09 FEB 1819 Donaghmore, Tyrone, Ireland - to William & Mary

these are the marriages of William Grier & William Greer from the IGI's-

William GRIER-
Birth: About 1762 Castlecaulfield, Donaghmore, Tyrone, Ireland
Spouse: Mrs Ann Grier
Marriage: About 1787
(no batch file just a user submission)

William GREER-
Birth-
Spouse: MARY CLEMENTS
Marriage: 26 APR 1815 Donaghmore, Tyrone, Ireland

Secondly, we have-

William GREER (AFN: 1DZZ-XV2)
Birth: Abt 1765 Dungannon, Tyrone, Ireland
Parents
Father: James GREER (AFN: 1DZZ-D5X)
Mother: Sarah DELAP (AFN: 1DZZ-B36)
Spouse: Elizabeth BELL (AFN: 1DZZ-XW8)
Marriage: 18 Sep 1799

It would appear that William Greer, son of James and Sarah Delap is not the father of Thomas Greer after all, I can see where one may have misconstrued that Dungannon with Donaghmore, and the date of Abt 1765 was close enough to that of Abt 1762 if it were nto for the Lurgan Quaker records for WIlliam son of James and Sarah noting him as 'died without issue', I would persue the line of thought that they may have been his parents, and his place of birth, citing the 'no batch file', was in error.

Thirdly, we have (Thank you again Vanessa!)-
William GREER 1779, Ireland m Margaret SPEAKE

so it seems, that the Marriages of William GREER with Ann and then Margaret in the tree I was originally looking at is a conglomeration between all three marriages-
1) William GRIER(b. abt 1762) with Ann (m 1787) appear to be the parents of John(1785), William(1789), and Susannah(1790)(note GREER not GRIER though same place as Johns parents who are GRIER);

2) William GREER with Margaret Speake(m 1779) which would apear to be the parents of Thomas GREER(b.1815);

3) William GREER (b Unk.) with Mary CLEMENTS (m. 1815) which would apear to be the parents of Andrew Greer (b1816) and 'Unk male' GREER (b1819) whom are both new factors to this problem anyways.. This is possibly William Greer born 1789, son of marriage #1.

ok so I can conclude that my lead was false, or in error, and now I am still left with trying to find the parents of Joseph Greer (b1802) who married Sarah 'sally' Ann Armstrong in 1827.

I think that sums that up, thanks for listening

Irony is the act of realising had you only waited another week you would have answered your own question from the newly gathered information you sorted out .


and this one is for WorldConnect-


=)