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  1. #1
    Growing old Disgracefully
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    Smile Musicians and Singers

    Hi there

    Is there anyone who can help? where do I look for info on some one who was a Professional Musician and Singer in the 1880's.

    I have Alice Kate Moss b1860 East/West Ham, Essex on the 1881 census as a Professional musician and singer. She married Robert Little Radcliff a solicitor in 1881, after the census was taken. Found her on 61,71 & 81 census but can't find her after this.

    Thanks for any help anyone can give
    Sandy

  2. #2
    SBSFamilyhistory
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    Default

    Hi Sandy

    I have not found Alice but I have found Robert in the 1881 Census, well I think this is him

    Name: Robert L. Ratcliffe
    Age: 27
    Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
    Relation: Head
    Gender: Male
    Where born: Mile End, Middlesex, England

    Civil Parish: West Ham
    County/Island: Essex
    Country: England

    Street address: 208 Romford Rd
    Education:

    Employment status: View Image
    Occupation: Solicitor

    Registration district: West Ham
    Sub-registration district: West Ham
    ED, institution, or vessel: 40


    the image shows a "t" but no "e"

    sorry that I could find Alice for you but who knows they may have moved abroad or dare I say it even died.

    ohh was Equity around then or perhaps you could looking for programmes from around that era, varitety hall etc

  3. #3
    suedent
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandyhall View Post
    Hi there

    Is there anyone who can help? where do I look for info on some one who was a Professional Musician and Singer in the 1880's.

    I have Alice Kate Moss b1860 East/West Ham, Essex on the 1881 census as a Professional musician and singer. She married Robert Little Radcliff a solicitor in 1881, after the census was taken. Found her on 61,71 & 81 census but can't find her after this.

    Thanks for any help anyone can give
    Sandy
    Here she is in 1891

    Robert L Ratcliff Head M 37 Solicitor London Mile End
    Alice K Ratcliff Wife M 30 Essex East Ham
    Dorothy Ratcliff Dau 8 Essex Stratford
    Kitty Ratcliff Dau 7 Harolds Wood Essex
    Margret Ratcliff Dau 6 Harolds Wood Essex
    Lauria G Edwards Serv 19 General Servant Essex Barking
    6 Shrewsbury Road, East Ham, Essex
    RG12/1339 ED 7 Folio 124 Page 3 Sched 15

    Surname indexed as Ratecliff, Alice as Rice K!!

    It looks the the 1890s were busy for Alice

    Alice K Hubbard Head W 40 Licensed Victualler Essex East Ham
    Kitty Ratcliff Dau S 19 Essex Stratford
    Dorothy Ratcliff Dau S 18 Essex Harold Wood
    Margaret Ratcliff Dau S 16 Essex Harold Wood
    Mary Leonard Serv S 38 Domestic Cook Wolverhampton
    Mary Moss Niece S 18 Assistant to Licensed Victualler Essex East Ham
    16 Goswell Rd, Finsbury, London
    RG13/263 ED 26 Folio 128 Page 12 Sched 59
    Last edited by suedent; 17-01-2008 at 5:09 PM. Reason: Added 1901 entry

  4. #4
    suedent
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    Now this is curious, I thought I'd look for Robert's death to work out when Alice remarried - this is what I found:

    Deaths Sep 1906 Ratcliff Robert Little 53 Bethnal G 1c 132

    After a bit of digging I found Robert in 1901

    Robert L Ratcliff Head M 47 Solicitor Out of Practice Stepney, London
    Emma M Ratcliff Wife M 32 Northumberland Newcastle on Tyne
    John B Ratcliff Son S 4 Surrey Weybridge
    William H P Ratcliff Son S 2 London Lambeth
    Joyce Ratcliff Dau S 1 London Lambeth
    RG13/406 ED 9 Folio 104 Page 2 Sched 402
    143 Lambeth Road, Lambeth, London
    Indexed as Rateliff

    He's obviously come down in the world as he's sharing with 2 other families.

    Here are the second marriages:

    Alice Kate Ratcliff/Alice Kate Moss Q4 1895 Dover 2a 1971 Spouse: Charles John Hubbard

    Robert Little Ratcliff Q4 1895 Chertsey 2a 82 Spouse: Emma Marie Edwards

    This could be the death of Charles Hubbard - no idea why there are two entries.
    Charles John Hubbard Q4 1897 Age at Death: 39 Hackney 1b 368a
    Charles John Hubbard Q4 1897 Age at Death: 39 Hackney 1b 365

    You're in luck the divorce papers are at the National Archives;

    Item details J 77/531/16238
    Divorce Court File: 16238. Appellant: Alice Kate Ratcliff. Respondent: Robert Little Ratcliff. Type: Wife's petition [wx].
    Covering dates 1894
    Availability Open Document, Open Description, Normal Closure before FOI Act: 30 years
    Held by The National Archives, Kew
    Last edited by suedent; 17-01-2008 at 6:09 PM. Reason: Additional info

  5. #5
    Growing old Disgracefully
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    Smile

    Good morning

    well you lot (in the nicest possible way) have just blown me away, I've been looking for them for ages (not looking in the right place obviously)

    But then I am off to get my eyes tested this afternoon. lol

    Thanks Sandy

  6. #6
    Growing old Disgracefully
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    Jan 2008
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    Smile

    Hi SBS

    Thanks I had found this entry for Robert in the 1881 census.

    Hi sue

    Thanks I did know about Robert's death in 1906
    But didn't know about the divorce.

    I have found a cousin who is in America, she's had no luck finding them either she will be so pleased.

    Once again thank you
    Sandy

    Not all angles have wings

  7. #7
    SBSFamilyhistory
    Guest

    Wink

    Sandy you can get the records on A amended so that they show the correct names. I cannot remember how to do it at the moment but I think it was quite easy when I did it earlier this year..


    Sue, yes another Sue

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