Hunt for Agnes Jane Scott

[freddie999]

My GrandFather, William Henry Scott was born in Carlisle in 02/10/1896; the year is confirmed by his age on his marriage cetrificate, and on army medical papers. However, I ordered his birth certificate, which give his mother's name as Agnes Jane Scott, and to add difficulties to my reseach, no father was recorded on this certificate. Before his birth, Agnes worked in Carlisle in service. I have had difficulties in tracing Agnes before his birth. I have looked back to the census prior to his birth for her, there are a number, I couldn't decide which is my Agnes!! So I have no idea which family to follow.

Somehow I came upon a 1911 census record for a family, the wife was Agnes Jane Graham, head of the household was Henry Graham (married 17 years) and they had a son William Graham (born in 1897). Interestingly, they have a daughter (born 1890) and a neice with Scott surname.

In the 1901 census, I found Agnes J Graham, with William H Graham. But no Henry Graham, who I havent been able to find him in any earlier census's. I have searched around for Henry's & Agnes's marriage details, with no success. Can anyone help?

[Mutley]

The reference for the 1901 census is RG13/4869 Folio 120 Page 30 (TNA Copyright)

Agnes J Graham, wife b. 1871 in Ivy Gill
Charlotte L Scott, daughter b. 1893 in Thursby
William H Graham, son b. 1897 in Carlisle
John Graham, son b. 1899 in Carlisle
living in Duke Street Carlisle.

Still searching for the 1911.

[olliecat]

I imagine this is Agnes Jane Graham etc. in 1911.

1911: RG14/31331 SN24

[Mutley]

An Agnes Graham b. 1871 in Egremont is in the workhouse at Whitehaven in 1891,
beneath her in the listing is a 4 year old William Graham b. 1887.

RG12/4316, Folio 119, Page 2
(TNA Copyright)
I don't think they are yours because William's age is wrong, but the names are a co-incidence so I thought I had better mention it.

[olliecat]

Interestingly, there is an Agnes Jane Scott born abt 1869 in Hesket in the 1891 census, living at Thursby. She is a housekeeper. In the 1901 cenus, the child Charlotte Lilian Scott is recorded as being born at Thursby.

1891: RG12 Piece: 4296 Folio: 89 Page:1 (crown copyright, care of the TNA)

Also, in the 1871 and 1881 census, there is an Agnes Jane Scott, born in Hesket. She is the niece of Thomas Craghill and Ann/Agnes nee Scott.

1871: RG10 Piece: 5207 Folio: 87 Page: 10 (crown copyright, care of the TNA)
1881: RG11 Piece: 5169 Folio: 79 Page: 7 (crown copyright, care of the TNA)

The question being - is this the same Agnes?

[Mutley]

The reference for the 1901 census is RG13/4869 Folio 120 Page 30 (TNA Copyright)

Agnes J Graham, wife b. 1871 in Ivy Gill
Charlotte L Scott, daughter b. 1893 in Thursby
William H Graham, son b. 1897 in Carlisle
John Graham, son b. 1899 in Carlisle
living in Duke Street Carlisle.

Looking at the original for this census a Mary Hetherington born 1873 in Carlisle could be the head of the household.

Next door at number 24 Duke Street is
Hannah Graham, a widow, b. 1857
William G, son, b. 1886
Mary J, daughter, b. 1890
Margaret Fletcher, mother, b. 1820
All born in Carlisle.

[freddie999]

Here's the 1911 census details and reference:

______________________________________
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
31331 Reference:
RG14PN31331 RG78PN1797 RD574 SD3 ED10 SN24

I have found the military record, mentioned above, bit confusing with his mother's name listed as Alice Jane Scott - he's very confused!!!!!!

Theres no reference on his marrage certificate to his parents.


I have found to variety of Agnes (Jane) Scott - and i've got no idea which is the right one.

Thanks for all these replies, its difficult!!!

Freddie

[olliecat]

Theres no reference on his marrage certificate to his parents.

Freddie, I take it that surname William Henry used on his marriage cert was Scott. Who were the witnesses and was there an address?
Also, do you have a death certificate for him?
One more question, what was the address recorded on his birth certificate?

[freddie999]

Thanks for all your help, I hope this answers your questions.

I take it that surname William Henry used on his marriage cert was Scott. YES

Who were the witnesses and was there an address?

Witness were Lily Smart & Arthur Mott; the groom and bride were both in residence at the same address 94 Raffles Avenue, Carlisle.

Also, do you have a death certificate for him? Yes I have the death certificate, he died in 1972 of heart failure. His address was 352 Raffles Avenue, and this is where he was found dead, by his daughter.

what was the address recorded on his birth certificate? 22 Duke Street, Carlisle

[olliecat]

what was the address recorded on his birth certificate? 22 Duke Street, Carlisle

Since the address of the Grahams in the 1901 census was 22 Duke St, Carlisle, then this certainly adds weight to the possibility that your William Scott is the William Graham in the census with mum Agnes. However, as there doesn't appear to be a marriage between Agnes/Alice Scott and Henry Graham then the question is how to prove all this satisfactorily as well as ensure the correct Agnes is traced in the earlier census.

I'm wondering what I would do in your situation. I think I'd probably want to get hold of the niece's birth certificate in order to determine who her parents were and exactly how they connect to Agnes. This could her birth...

Births Dec 1910 Carlisle 10b 557
SCOTT Mary A

After that, I'd consider getting hold of daughter Charlottes marriage certificate. The following is a possibility, but it's not certain...

Marriages Jun 1914 Carlisle 10b 1215
Scott Charlotte L Smith
Smith James Scott

Seems like a roundabout way of going about things, but I can't think of anything else right at this moment. Someone may come along with a better idea.