Info needed on Minty, Fishlock & Chivers

[Sally Mortimore]

Hi Robert - Iris Margaret Kibblewhite (known to me as "Auntie Mag" - so I know that she died some time in the 1970s as I remember her as a small child) married Arthur (known as Harry) Marshall. He was Dugald (known as Pete) Kibblewhite's wife's brother and I know only, at this stage that he was born in 1895 in Clapham.

I can confirm that Dugald died in 1963.

Sally

[Robert Kibblewhite]

Iris Margaret KIBBLEWHITE (known to me as ‘Auntie Mag’) died in the 1970s and married Arthur ‘Harry’ MARSHALL. He was Duguld ‘Pete’ KIBBLEWHITE's wife's brother and was born in 1895 in Clapham.

Hello Sally. Would these be the relevant marriages?
Stanley G KIBBLEWHITE + Ethel M MARSHALL 1915Sep/Lambeth
Iris M D KIBBLEWHITE + John H MARSHALL 1917Sep/Lambeth
Duguld S KIBBLEWHITE + Florence A R MARSHALL 1923Jun/Lambeth
So John H and Florence A R are siblings.

I’ve added these two marriages from parish records:
William KIBBLEWHITE + Elizabeth CHIVERS 05 Jan 1769 at Wroughton
Edward KIBBLEWHITE + Mary EDEY 05 Aug 1726 at Purton
Do you have birthplaces (Purton?) of these four?
Any additional information, please?

Kind regards. Robert

[Sally Mortimore]

Hi Robert - I have Elizabeth Chivers born in Wroughton but an illegible birthdate.

I have Stanley Gilbert's wife as Minnie Marshall - I suppose she may have been baptised Ethel Minnie - i will check. And I have John as Arthur so I may need to check that too. Otherwise, all details are correct. Three siblings married three siblings

Sally

[Robert Kibblewhite]

Hi Sally.
The fact of three sibling parallel marriages is fascinating. These births may be of interest:
John Henry MARSHALL 1891Sep/Wandsworth
Ethel Minnie MARSHALL 1893Jun/Wandsworth
Florence Amelia R MARSHALL 1897Jun/Wandsworth

The 1901 Census [Class: RG13; Piece: 466; Folio: 23; Page: 38] has a family living at 26 Lower Orchard Street, Clapham headed by John MARSHALL aged 45 b. Goldington, Bedfordshire occupation gardener; and wife Emily MARSHALL aged 40 b. Westminster, London. Children are - William MARSHALL aged 17 b. Balham, London occupation ruler (paper) assistant; Helen MARSHALL aged 13 b. Streatham, London; John MARSHALL aged 9 b. Streatham; Minnie MARSHALL aged 8 b. Clapham; Arthur MARSHALL aged 6 b. Clapham; Florence MARSHALL aged 3 b. Clapham; Lilian MARSHALL aged 2 b. Clapham. This looks probable. Ethel known as Minnie? John Henry not yet known as Harry?

Do you know what happened to Dorothy Winifred KIBBLEWHITE b.1890 and Constance Irene KIBBLEWHITE b.1893?

Robert

[Peter Goodey]

John Henry MARSHALL 1891Sep/Wandsworth
Ethel Minnie MARSHALL 1893Jun/Wandsworth
Florence Amelia R MARSHALL 1897Jun/Wandsworth

The 1901 Census [Class: RG13; Piece: 466; Folio: 23; Page: 38]...

I have an interest in the MARSHALL family although my only interest in KIBBLEWHITE is as spouses of siblings.

I can confirm that those three were indeed siblings and you have indeed found the appropriate 1901 census entry.

[Peter Goodey]

Iris Margaret Kibblewhite (known to me as "Auntie Mag" - so I know that she died some time in the 1970s as I remember her as a small child) married Arthur (known as Harry) Marshall.

Would you mind checking on that for me as well please, Sally?

I'm pretty clear that Iris Margaret married John Henry (as Robert says) but I have a note to the effect that Arthur was a possible Great War casualty and that he may have married Ellen GAPP in 1915. This is all unconfirmed because I really only have a passing interest.

[Robert Kibblewhite]

Hi Robert - I have Elizabeth Chivers born in Wroughton but an illegible birthdate. Sally

Hi Sally.
I have not found Elizabeth CHIVERS bapt.1710 to 1770 at Wroughton. Faint hope that one of your squiggles might look like one of these:
Elizabeth CHIVERS bapt.16 Jul 1732 at Clyffe Pypard BB daughter of Lucy.
Eliz CHIVERS bapt.6 Aug 1745 at Winterbourne Bassett daughter of Dan & Pri.
Elizabeth CHIVERS bapt.18 Oct 1755 at Winterbourne Monkton daughter of Alexander & Elizebeth.

I was fascinated by the Royal Navy Registers of Seaman's Services record card of Dugald Sinclair KIBBLEWHITE; the first time I’d heard of the ballot for a Victoria Cross and the operations against Zeebrugge-Ostende in 1918.

Robert

[Sally Mortimore]

Yes Robert - they are all my Marshalls. My maternal grandmother, Florence Amelia Raynor Kibblewhite (nee Marshall), wife of Dugald -but I hadnt come across the records you refer to. I have his original Merchant and Royal Navy service records. Forgive my ignorance, but what does "the ballot for a victoria cross" mean?

Doris Winifred died on 16th February 1980 aged 90. I have her original death and marriage certificate - she married Charles Edward Light, aged 22 - a Royal navy Stoker on 12th November 1916, in Portslade, witnessed by "Maggie" Kibblewhite. I also have a copy of her will. Charles Light wmessage=Yes Robert - they are all my Marshalls. My maternal grandmother, Florence Amelia Raynor Kibblewhite (nee Marshall), wife of Dugald -but I hadnt come across the records you refer to. I have his original Merchant and Royal Navy service records. Forgive my ignorance, but what does "the ballot for a victoria cross" mean?

Doris Winifred died on 16th February 1980 aged 90. I have her original death and marriage certificate - she married Charles Edward Light, aged 22 - a Royal navy Stoker on 12th November 1916, in Portslade, witnessed by "Maggie" Kibblewhite. I also have a copy of her will. Charles Light was a nephew of John Kibblewhite's second wife Sarah Jane Light - meaning that they were first cousins. They had two children, both of whom died in their infancy. I dont know if that is of any interest!

With regard Constance, according to my mother (her neice) she married a man named Goodyear and lived in Herne Hill all her life until her death some time before 1957 (the year of my mother's marriage). she had a son called Jack or John. I have no further info i am afraid.

Peter - I think I may have made an error - I believe you and I have hadas a nephew of John Kibblewhite's second wife Sarah Jane Light - meaning that they were first cousins. They had two children, both of whom died in their infancy. I dont know if that is of any interest!

With regard Constance, according to my mother (her neice) she married a man named Goodyear and lived in Herne Hill all her life until her death some time before 1957 (the year of my mother's marriage). she had a son called Jack or John. I have no further info i am afraid.

Peter - I think I may have made an error - I believe you and I have had this disucssion previously re Arthur and John Henry. I am interested in your thoughts about Arthur

Sally

[Peter Goodey]

Peter - I think I may have made an error - I believe you and I have had this disucssion previously re Arthur and John Henry. I am interested in your thoughts about Arthur

Hi Sally

I'll try to keep the thread on-topic and reply offline

[Robert Kibblewhite]

Hi Sally
The Royal Navy Registers of Seaman's Services record card for Dugald Sinclair KIBBLEWHITE (online from the National Archives) has a rubber-stamped item ”Participated in ballot for V.C. granted for operations against Zeebrugge-Ostende 22-23 April 1918 (London Gazette 23.7.18)”.
Rule 13 of the Victoria Cross Warrant of 1856 allows that in the event of a gallant and daring act having been performed by a body of not under fifty seamen in which the officer commanding such forces deems that all are equally brave and distinguished and that no special selection can be made from them, then in such a case the admiral may direct that two seamen shall be selected by the seamen engaged for the Decoration. Such a procedure was employed in the case of the Zeebrugge operations, code-named “Operation ZO” (a bit obvious to any passing German spy, methinks). There is an excellent detailed history of all this is on the website www.mckenzie.uk.com dedicated to one of the consequent receivers of a VC. The basic plan was to block an estuary with sunken ships to prevent German submarines getting in and out of the Channel.
AB Seaman Dugald Sinclair KIBBLEWHITE served on the pre-dreadnought battleship HMS Empress of India from 12 October 1914 to 20 March 1919 except for the period 23 February 1918 to 23 April 1918 when he served on HMS Hindustan. This was the secret training ship for the Royal Marines and seamen who took part in Operation ZO. It would appear that DSK was one of about 200 seamen who volunteered for an unknown special operation. One may speculate what was his role in this attack on a heavily defended position. DSK's eligibility for the award given for "acts of conspicuous courage and bravery under circumstances of extreme danger", indicates that he served one of the participating vessels. The blockships or the troop-carrying Liverpool ferries are most likely I would guess given his previous service; perhaps on the smoke-producing speed-boats or the lead ship HMS Vindictive, though I imagine they would have had their own crews, or less likely on the submarine that was blown up under a bridge to prevent German reinforcements. I wonder if there is any way of finding out more?
Robert