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  1. #1
    nikki sager
    Guest

    Red face Vickers or Sirman,

    hi,i am trying to trace my family,ive got so far back and cannot seem to get any further!has anyone got anything on John Hedley Vickers,who married Emily Townsend?they appear on the 1900 census,married, and im also looking for info on Joseph Sirman who married a Selina,i dont know her maiden name.they are my g.g.g.grandparents and am struggling to get any further back.they were all in the witney area and all in the Coggs Parish.i am very new to this and would really appreciate any info or advice.thankyou!

  2. #2
    Geoffers
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nikki sager
    hi,i am trying to trace my family,ive got so far back and cannot seem to get any further!has anyone got anything on John Hedley Vickers,who married Emily Townsend?they appear on the 1900 census,married, and im also looking for info on Joseph Sirman who married a Selina,i dont know her maiden name.they are my g.g.g.grandparents and am struggling to get any further back.they were all in the witney area and all in the Coggs Parish.i am very new to this and would really appreciate any info or advice.thankyou!
    A little bit more information and we'll hopefully be able to point you in the right direction. So, you have John VICKERS and Emily TOWNSEND in the 1901 census. Were they married at this time, what were their ages and places of birth and if married did they have any children in 1901?

    Do you have a marriage certificate for this couple? If not and you are not sure how to look for and obtain it, please ask.

    Similar questions about Joseph and Selina SIRMAN

    continued.....

  3. #3
    Geoffers
    Guest

    Default

    Using the information you have given on Joseph and Selina Sirman, I'll give an example of what might be found fairly easily. This assumes that Joseph and Selina Sirman were married. First off, a birth certificate for one of their children would give you Selina's maiden name.

    Using the index to the 1901 census. There are several SIRMANs in Cogges (modern spelling is with an 'e'). These are: William 61, Harriet 59, Sarah 50, Annie 25, James 19, John 23, Joseph, 28 and Selina 27 (Selina is shown as being born in Lechlade, Glos) and Joseph aged 5mth (was he the son of Joseph and Selina? Order his birth certificate to find out).

    continued.......
    Last edited by Guest; 12-10-2007 at 3:30 PM.

  4. #4
    Geoffers
    Guest

    Default

    part 3....

    The General Register Office (GRO) index is available on a pay-per-view site 1837online but a project to transcribe the index exists and is freely available at https://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl (note it is not complete and does contain errors, but is a useful starting point). If you don't what the index is, or its use, please ask.

    Using the freebmd site I found a record for a birth:

    December 1900
    SIRMAN, Joseph James - Witney RD, vol 3a page 896

    continued....
    Last edited by Guest; 12-10-2007 at 3:30 PM.

  5. #5
    Geoffers
    Guest

    Default

    part 4.....

    So, if Joseph aged 28 in the 1901 census is this Joseph's dad, he may have only recently married.

    Again searching freebmd I found:

    December 1899
    SIRMAN, Joseph Robert - Faringdon RD, vol 2c, page 623

    An entry exists for Selina SELWOOD in the same Quarter and Year and with the same reference. So it seems possible that Joseph SIRMAN married Selina SELWOOD. A birth certificate one of their children would confirm this, as would ordering the marriage certificate for the couple.

    continued.....

  6. #6
    Geoffers
    Guest

    Default

    part 5......

    Again making an assumption that the Joseph aged 28 in the 1901 census is your chap, I searched the 1881 census, a transcript is available on the familysearch web-site and the transcript is available on CD-rom. It records:

    RG11/1515 f6 p5
    Oxford Road, Cogges
    Joseph SURMAN, head, mar, 40, Brewer's Labourer, bn Cogges
    Sarah Surman, wife, mar, 35, born Fulbrook
    Eleanor M Surman, dau, 9, bn Witney
    Joseph R Surman, son, 8, bn Witney
    Annie E Surman, dau, 6, bn Cogges
    John E Surman, son, 4, bn Cogges
    Sarah Ann Surman, dau, 2, bn Cogges

    continued....

  7. #7
    Geoffers
    Guest

    Default

    part 6.....

    Going back to freebmd and looking for a possible marriage for Joseph (senior) around 1868-1873 shows a hit:

    September 1869
    SURMAN, Joseph - Witney RD, vol 3a, page 1009

    with an entry for a Sarah Ann PAINTIN which has the same reference; so again this may possibly be his wife.

    The birth of their son, Joseph also seems to be shown:

    March 1873
    SURMAN, Joseph Robert - Witney RD, vol 3a page 748

    continued....

  8. #8
    Geoffers
    Guest

    Default

    part 7...

    The 1901 census shows many of the Sirmans were farm workers. There is a good chance that they were working at Cogges Manor Farm, which is now a museum open to the public:
    www.
    witney.net/cogges-manor-farm-museum.htm

    Now, this information may be incorrect - you do have to check it for yourself, you must get the relevant certificates to confirm the information which I have given and which may (or may not) be correct.

    Proceed methodically, record everything and where/when you found it. If you are new to research, buy a good book on tracing your family history. If anything I have typed is as clear as mud, ask and I'll try to explain things better.

    Do you live anywhere near to Witney? There is quite a good local studies section in the library and I'd be quite happy to show you what to look for and where.

    Geoffers

  9. #9
    Geoffers
    Guest

    Default

    part 8....

    I've just been into Witney and had 10 minutes to spare, so had a browse through some of their resources to try and confirm some of the information which I've typed in earlier replies.

    The parish register entries are taken from OFHS transcripts in Witney library.

    First the 1901 census for Cogges (I'll stick to the modern spelling):

    RG13/1395

    f8 p7 sch.39
    Oxford Road
    Sarah A SIRMAN, hd, wid, 50, laundress, bn Swinbrook
    Annie E Sirman, dau, unm, 25, glove machinist, bn Cogges
    John E Sirman, son, unm, 23, drayman, bn Cogges
    John G PORTER, grandson, 6, bn Cogges
    James Ths Sirman, son, 19, painter, bn Cogges

    continued....

  10. #10
    Geoffers
    Guest

    Default

    part 9....
    1901 census again
    f11 p13 sch.79
    High Cogges
    William SIRMAN, hd, mar, 61, ag.lab, bn Cogges
    Harriet Sirman, wf, mar, 59, Glover, bn Cogges

    f12 p16 sch.102
    Newlands
    Robert SIRMAN, hd, mar, 53, gen labourer, bn Cogges
    Sarah Sirman, wf, mar, 57, bn Cogges

    f14 p19 sch.121
    Newlands
    Joseph SIRMAN, hd, mar, 28, Yardman on farm, bn Witney
    Selina Sirman, wf, mar, 27, bn Lechlade, Glos
    Joseph J Sirman, son, 5mth, bn Cogges

    continued...

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