LDS Records and Parish Registers

[Mythology]

"there are a few unchristian spirited vicars"

Too true, Guy - and if I happen to meet the one who is responsible for me having to travel to Gloucester in a week or so's time, he will get the rough end of my unchristian tongue. I enjoy visiting record offices, but I am not a good traveller, and three hours each way on a coach just to seek out one marriage record, which, knowing my lot, may well turn out to be in Stornoway or Bodmin instead, is not my idea of fun! For something like that, I'd much rather just risk a few pounds on the fiche, but Reverend Selfish has decreed that no copies shall be made.

As for the LDS, whatever one's feelings about them as an organisation, there is no denying that the IGI is often a useful and time-saving pointer to finding the real thing - I think that we would all have to do a lot more speculative trawling without it.

[Rove]

Hi Linda
I'm all the way with you. Definetely a great free service by them and wonderful nice helpers.

I have a link with Malta through my paternal grandmother so I'm researching the Bartolo family. The LDS do have a few items on this family in their records.

One time I wrote to them and asked if they ever considered filming the parish registers on the little Island. As I had figured it was a hopeless case due to the different religious beliefs. Malta being a 100% RC country.

I visted the Island in 1992 and did a fair amount of research. Anything from the Parishes is FREE and their records going back to 1550 are first class. At the town of Floriana and Senglea they allowed me to spend many hours viewing the Registers and issued the certs for free. One thing the old registers are in Latin but thats no problem. I was told that every Register has a back up copy. Yes, they do accept a donation.

Well, only this week I discovered that the LDS have opened an office in Malta.
Plus the US Govt has just purchased a huge piece of land to build a new Embassy costing many millions. So, one can think and say " Have $$$ will succeed " As you all know, churches do consider donations.

[jeeb]

Huh ... the LDS are "christian" ... i don't think so.

Mark

Mark, I cannot understand why you should make this strong statement. LDS may have some strange beliefs in the eyes of many but they do not as far as I am aware commit such atrocities as have been committed by other so called Christians in the past. The christian church is directly or indirectly to blame for a great deal of greed and cruelty in the past. I am not a Latter Day Saint, but to call them unchristian is a very unchristian thing to do.
Guy mentions unchristian vicars, he may be nearer the mark, I always thought the Church Of England was God's house. I then wonder what right the church thinks it has to block the copying of its records, our records of our ancestors. OK I go along with the objection to baptising names of people take from Cof E registers into the Mormon faith but these people who cared enough have already been baptised into their chosen faith during their lifetime and finally buried into their own churches consecrated ground, I don't think it will make any difference to those whose faith was strong enough and the rest probably wouldn't give a damn anyway. Jeremy

[ChristineR]

One should bear in mind that the IGI does not contain all the records that are held by the LDS. It is an index to their activities in carrying out their beliefs. Someone explained all that in another thread some time back.

It is pretty obvious which records can be taken on board with some degree of confidence - any record which comes from a parish record has a letter in front of it - C or M indicating christening or marriage. Anything that is a film number or patron submitted must be viewed with extreme caution - can lead you astray or point you in the right direction.

You need to look at their library holdings to see what they have - and then this will say what they are, (parish records, bishops transcripts, or published transcripts) what they cover and the date range. I have only looked at Essex records, mostly Harwich and Dovercourt that are not on the IGI - when the film I ordered arrived, it was of parish registers that are held by the Essex record office. And some of these were not originals, at the beginning of the book the vicar would indicate that they had been copied from the original into the new book.

ChristineR
Australia

[Guy Etchells]

OK I go along with the objection to baptising names of people take from Cof E registers into the Mormon faith but these people who cared enough have already been baptised into their chosen faith during their lifetime and finally buried into their own churches consecrated ground, I don't think it will make any difference to those whose faith was strong enough and the rest probably wouldn't give a damn anyway. Jeremy

First I did not state that the LDS was christian Mark must have misread my posting.

May I make one correction here Jeremy.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that it is right to offer the depated the chance to be baptised into their church.
The departed is given the choice as to whether they accept or not and surely if there is life after death they are the ones in the best position to judge whether to accept such an offer or not.

Whether we believe the LDS is a christian faith or not is of no concern, their attitude to helping and sharing with all is undeniably a christian attitude.
Cheers
Guy

[Mark]

Yes, I did read the juxtaposition of "unchristian vicars" and LDS to mean that the LDS were christian.

I do not though see why "jeeb" is surprised. The LDS aren't Christians, come to that nor are Muslims, Hindu's etc etc. If you use Google with such search terms as +"Mormon" +"heresy" you find many sites explaning just how the Mormon doctrine is completely at odds with Christianity.

Their attitude and our gratefulness for it for genealogy is great. Without it, many of us would still be floundering around. But the ulterior motive behind the transcribing, to re-baptise people in the LDS faith, is something we ought to bear in mind.

I don't think vicar's are unchristian for preventing the LDS from filming the registers they're in charge of, bearing in the mind the use the LDS church makes of them.

Do we call some national governmental agencies "unchristian" for not opening up their BMD indexes and offering certificates for x number of years. (thinking of some Australian ones for instance).

Just because "we" want records, and usually "free access" to them, doesn't make the keepers of the records unchristian if they decide not to make them available.

Mark

[Clive Blackaby]

Huh ... the LDS are "christian" ... i don't think so.

Mark

Mark,

The full name of the LDS (of which I am not a member) might give a hint

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints".

As they say on their website



"There are many who say that Latter-day Saints believe in a 'different Jesus' than do other Christians and that we are therefore not 'Christian.' . . . We believe in the Jesus of the New Testament, and we believe what the New Testament teaches about Him. We do believe things about Jesus that other Christians do not believe, but that is because we know, through revelation, things about Jesus that others do not know. . . . "What we want most of all is for Christian and non-Christian alike to understand that we love the Lord Jesus Christ. We revere His name. We count it a great honor and privilege to take upon ourselves the name of Christ as Christians and as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

[mary elms]

We seem to be straying seriously off topic here for the General English Family History forum. The fact is that permission was refused and therefore the IGI cannot be complete. It is a tool that we use gratefully and carefully.

I have had many discussions on faith with members of the LDS and have done 4 sessions of one of their courses (sessions 5 & 6 were only for those who converted). I suspect that they understand fully why they were refused permission - a person's attitiude depends totally on his/her beliefs about the significance or otherwise of baptism and on what they believe about life after death.

Attacking one another over this seems fruitless to me. There is after all a forum on which we can discuss what constitutes a Christian in a friendly manner if we wish.

Mary.

[Guy Etchells]

But Mary the IGI is complete and 100% accurate.

That is to say it is complete as far as the latest ordinances are concerned and it is 100% accurate when used for its correct purpose.
The IGI is after all an index of the ordinances of the LDS church - it is not and never has been an index of parish registers.
Cheers
Guy

[Chasing Caseys]

Forgive me for what i am about to say but, I am Christian because i was christened (no fault of mine) I was educated at a Convent ( partly my fault !) and so have no religious feelings but do admire those that have.
The LDS have provided me with information so that i can go seek and follow up albeit with a lot of emmissions. Luckily the Scottish vicars/priests/canons whatever for my areas at least werent so grumpy.
Do any of us care which religious denomination began a web site for us looking to find our forebears ? - i think not. I for one havent thought about it and selfishly dont care who started it as long as i find clues to what i need and would pay for it if they charged .

Appologies for offending anyone, going further off topic, my grammer and speling (that was deliberate, though i cant say for sure about the previous - does that have an "E" ? ).

Mary Elms.......special appologies to you as you always seem so kind and gracious in your replies.