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  1. #11

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    Ellen and Mark
    For clarity in #5 I made reference to the 1843 Will Of Samuel Isaacs and his wife Ann. In post#1 Mark gave dates of 1805-1877 for Ann. Cemetery Scribes Person ID 8666 Ann Isaacs gives her dob as 1805 and death as 1877 which matches the dates given by Mark in #1 but also in Cemetery Scribes Samuel Isaacs Person ID 8665 he is named as the husband of Ann and given dates of 1792-1877 with children- George; Frances; Emily; Alfred; Julia; Sidney; Ann; Lilia; Agnes; Clara.
    Is the 1843 Will for Samuel Isaacs and wife Ann a different Samuel? My question is this- which precise Samuel Isaacs with wife Ann is correct?
    NB- The Jewish Victorian. Genealogical Information from the Jewish Newspapers 1871-1880 transcribed and edited by Doreen Berger,1999 Pub Robert Boyd has the following entry- Death 20.7.1877 at Sydney Villa New Malden, Surrey ANN ISAACS relict of the late SAMUEL ISAACS. This record is a clear indication that Samuel was dead by July 1877 and Ann was a widow.

    Phillip

  2. #12

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    Mark and Ellen
    I can see now from the data the 2 Samuel Isaacs. From The Court of Exchequer The Standard Tues Nov 28,1843- Solomon v Isaacs- Samuel Solomons plaintiff and Anne Isaacs the widow- the executrix of _ Isaacs, was defendant... " Mr Solomons was a person engaged in the fruit trade in Covent Garden..the defendant was the widow of an individual formerly engaged in the samr business, who had before his death retired from the business.." This was a case where Solomons sought to recoup a £200 IOU given by Samuel Isaacs... verdict for the plaintiff. In the trial reference was made to the deceased Isaacs being a man of property.
    Phillip

  3. #13
    Starting to feel at home
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    Apr 2014
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    London
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    Hi Phillip,

    It’s very confusing but, as I think you’ve realised, there were two Samuel Isaacs married to two Anns in the same immediate family:

    Ann [maiden name unknown] (c. 1768-1853) m. (1) Mr Levy and (2) Samuel Isaacs (c. 1768-1843)

    By her first husband, she had:

    Ann Levy (c. 1805-1877), m. Samuel Isaacs (1792-1877), who was the son of a Joel Isaacs (c. 1758-1846) of Great Yarmouth and Norwich, and nephew of the orange merchant, and had a number of children.

    The elder Ann (b. c. 1768) is the widow mentioned in the Solomons vs. Isaacs case you mention - thank you for flagging that; I hadn’t seen it.

    Emma Levy/Isaacs who was apparently an illegitimate daughter of the elder Ann, married Abraham Garcia and had 12 children that I’m aware of, including a George and Annie (i.e. presumably the George and Ann mentioned in your Crawcour tree), but no Abe/Abraham.

    Thank you very much for telling me about your tree; I may be in touch to ask for the occasional look-up if I’m researching those lines/descendants, if you don't mind.

    I’ve found a few more snippets about the two Samuel Isaacs, and Joel Isaacs, which I’ll post soon.

    Best wishes,

    Mark

  4. #14

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    Mark
    The London Gazette 14 June 1831 has the bankruptcy of Joel Isaacs aka Isaac Isaacs- Joel Isaacs formerly of Gaol St Great Yarmouth in nOrfolk then of Davy Place and late of Magdalen St Norwich - fruiterer and clothier occasionally known as Isaac Isaacs.
    Importantly, Barnett Crawcour son of Samuel Crawcour 1748-1816 my 4x great grandfather was living at the same time in Magdalen Street as a surgeon dentist and played a major role in the establishment of the Norwich Synagogue in Tombland. I know this area very well.
    The Standard Tuesday Nov 15, 1836 records the case of Exparte Abraham Garcia , prisoner in the Fleet, fruit merchant carrying on considerable business in Oxford St ...a fruit merchant became bankrupt... had bank notes brought from Gt Yarmouth from Mr Wolfe.
    You can begin to see how the Isaacs, Simons, Garcia, Crawcour had various possible early links.
    Phillip

  5. #15
    Starting to feel at home
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
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    London
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    Thanks, Philip. I hadn't noticed that Great Yarmouth link to Abraham Garcia - interesting stuff.

    I must also read up on the Norwich synagogue/community.

    As I said, I'll post more on the Isaacs in due course, but will also, first, post on a possible identity for the Ann Isaacs (Sr.) I discussed at the top of this thread.

    Mark

  6. #16

    Default Isaacs Family Great Yarmouth

    Hi, Mark, Phillip, Ellen
    I'm a very new member of British Genealogy (joined yesterday!) as I became aware of the site and your thread in particular.
    I believe I am related to the daughter of Joel 1748/1758 - 1846 and Rachael 1764-1846.They were members of the Jewish community of Great Yarmouth and are buried there.
    I have tried to make sense of the great research you have all done but as one of you mentioned, it can be confusing as there are 2 Annes and 2 Samuel Isaacs involved. Given the information you posted I've tried to put together the relationships between the Levys and the family of Joel above.
    Would I be right in thinking the following?
    Samuel Isaacs 1768-1843 (Orange dealer) was the second husband of Anne Levy 1768-1853. This Samuel was the son of Isaac Isaacs and the brother of Joel mentioned above.
    Samuel and Anne's "daughter" Anne Levy married Samuel Isaacs 1792 - 1877 (Picture Dealer). This Samuel was the son of Joel and Rachael mentioned above and the brother of my relation.
    On the face of it, Anne Levy the "daughter" 1805-1877 and Samuel Isaacs 1792-1877 Picture Dealer were cousins, not unusual in close Jewish communities but in this case it would seem that this Anne may not be a blood relation.
    Any comments you have would be appreciated as would any information relating to Isaac Issacs and his son Joel Isaacs,( who seems to be also known by his father's name Isaac Isaacs - these ancestors certainly make things difficult) and generally the Isaac family in Great Yarmouth.
    I'm pretty new to all this and any pointers to Yarmouth based research resources would be gratefully received.
    Apologies for the long post and good wishes

  7. #17

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    Stuart
    You might want to post further data on Joel Isaacs and his lines to help clarify the relationships and possibly shed new light on the previous data posted. As a re-cap and to help others see British Jewry Archives- "More Isaacs and Davis" - 2 posts from Sat 7 Feb 2009 which include reference to Joel Isaacs and Rachel Davis. See also Cemetery Scribes- Joel Isaacs ID 13547 -1748-1846 and Rachel 1764-1846 wife of Joel Isaacs.
    Phillip

  8. #18

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    The 1841 Census HO107 794 4 5 2 (Crown Copyright,TNA) - Gaol Street Great Yarmouth Norfolk
    ISAAC ISAACS 70 clothier born in county N- Born in Foreign Parts; Scotland, Ireland - the census recorder has put a tick plus possibly another word which is difficult to read; RACHEL ISAACS 60 b in county N plus same record as Isaac; ELEANER ISAACS 20 b in county Y.
    If the record is accurate this suggests that Isaac aka Joel and Rachel were possibly born overseas.
    Phillip

  9. #19

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    Stuart
    Is Philip Isaacs a son of Joel aka Isaac? 1851 Census HO107 1806 689 2 (Crown Copyright,TNA)- 2 George St Great Yarmouth Norfolk
    Phillip Isaacs H M 40 Clothier/Furrier b Whitechapel; Elizabeth wife 41 b Aldgate; Leah dau 13 b Yarmouth; Sarah dau 12 b Yarmouth; Priscilla dau 10 b London Soho Square; Isaac son 8 b Yarmouth; Rachel 6; b Yarmouth; Elizabeth dau 4 b Yarmouth; Joel son 3 mths b Yarmouth

    1861 Census -RG9 2969 42 8 2 (Crown Copyright,TNA) - 66 Private House Cheetham Manchester
    Philip Isaacs HM 50 Furrier b Norfolk Yarmouth; Betsy wife 51 b Middx London; Priscilla dau 20 b Middx London; Rachel dau 17 b Norfolk Yarmouth; Elizabeth dau 12 b Norfolk Yarmouth; Joel son 10 b Norfolk Yarmouth;Louis H Son 8 b Norfolk Yarmouth; + visitors; lodger

    See also JewishGen UK Data base- 1851 British Census for records of the above family- Philip Isaacs b 1811 ID 12508
    Plus London Traders Data base for possible references to Philip Isaacs

    Phillip

  10. #20

    Default Joel Isaacs Family Great Yarmouth

    Thanks Phillip for the information and pointers especially to Phillip Isaacs, who may be a bit of a missing piece in my research, if he is who I think he may be.If so it would answer a lot of questions.

    I now need to check things out very carefully and will get back with all the information I have on the above and how any new information fits in as soon as I can.

    Thanks again Phillip for your input and help.

    Stuart

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