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  1. #1
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    Default London Tavern, South Norwood

    I have the death of a 7 month old who died at the London Tavern , 158 Clifton Road, South Norwood, Croydon U.S.D in Surrey in August 1890. All I know about her was when she was born and when she died so I was hoping to find a picture or something more out about the London Tavern. I can't see anything on line so wonder if the name has changed or it was knocked down, destroyed in bombing? Anyone know anything??

    Thanks.

    Audrey

    P.S. Just looked at Street View (first time!) and see a building on a corner which seems to be a central heating supply shop but does look as though it might have been a pub at some point?
    Last edited by AudreyF; 06-04-2014 at 2:20 PM. Reason: New Information

  2. #2

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    In Jun 1894 the licence for the "off license at 158 Clifton Road" was transferred from Robert Owen Cameron, senr, to Robert Owen Cameron, junr. The London Tavern was not named.
    "dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"

  3. #3
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    Kellys 1891 directory lists Edward Winter Hume as landlord of the London Tavern, 158 Clifton road

  4. #4
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    Hume is also there in the 1890 Kelly's Directory.

    Background notes from the book, "Norwood Pubs" by John Coulter (former head of Lewisham Local Studies Library, now retired):-

    "This obscure pub on the corner of Clifton Road and Whitehorse Lane, apparently began as an off-licence, blossomed into the London Tavern for fifteen or twenty years, and then subsided into an off-licence once more. The earliest reliable trace of it is in 1878, when W. Beal is recorded at 'ale stores, Clifton Road'. That probably indicates an off-licence, though 'stores' was sometimes used in pub names, in Scotland more often than in England. By 1884, Edward J. Barnes is listed here at the London Tavern.

    It continued as a pub at least until 1899, when Mrs E. C. Blake was the landlady, but by 1902 Albert Samuel Blake had turned it into an off-licence again, even though he was still calling it the London Tavern. That must have caused confusion, so a later proprietor, E. A. P. Richards, changed the name to London Stores. Yet a 1958 directory records 'Albert E. Pennington Richards, London Tavern', so perhaps the old name was still displayed somewhere on the premises. The Richards family continued to run the business until at least 1968. The building still stands and looks like a typical corner pub. It is now (2006) divided into flats."

    There is a picture dated 1998.

  5. #5
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    Chris Doran: The photo I found on Street View was very much a corner site and looked like a public house so I'll take another look and see if it was at the junction with Whitehorse Lane. Can you give me a link to find the 1998 picture, please?

    Audrey

    P.S. I wonder if you remember you were the kind person that researched voters' lists for Bertha Fleming and Charles Fleming/Hawkins - the latter changing his name on almost every list you found!!

  6. #6

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    Chris,
    Thanks for the clarification.
    The 1896 map shows only one pub - at the junction with Whitehorse Lane. By 1912 the map shows a pub at the junction with Holmesdale Rd (presently the Clifton Arms?).

    Given that I found an "offie" at 158, rather than a named pub, I wasn't sure whether the Holmesdale Rd junction pub had developed from the "offie".

    thanks
    "dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"

  7. #7
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    John Coulter traces the Clifton Arms at 21 Clifton Rd back to 1865, predating the London Tavern.

    The 1998 London Tavern picture is in the book and thus copyright, so I can't post it here, but PM me with an e-mail address for a scan.

    Yes, Audrey, I remember going back and forth between two local studies libraries following your rellies' movements across borough boundaries. With electoral rolls now online, I don't do so much of that any more.

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