Louisson (Isaac) & Pyke families London

[JulesNZ]

Hi Phillip re your post #26. I cant see how Julia can be daughter of Moses (Shnook Pyke) died 1792 and Elsa Moses died 1794. Julia was born according to census 1841 & 1851 between 1800 & 1806. I feel that they are her grandparents and their son is her father. ???? Can you send me a link to the Hyamson family tree
Regards Julie

[phillip]

Julie
If you note #26 I cautioned about accepting data from family trees without verification. I didn't think the Hyamson tree was correct not least because I hold trees written by both Hymason and Colyer Fergusson on my own lines which have proved incorrect in parts.
Just to be clear, the Society of Genealogists in London hold Anglo Jewish records including family trees written by Moody, Colyer Fergusson, Hyamson in the main. The Hyamson trees are all handwritten and often difficult to read. I visited the SOG on several occasions over the past decade and made copies of the trees which related to my lines. These trees contain both English and Hebrew records. The Latter Day Saints also hold copies of the micro fiche and films for these records. Similarly, the Jewish Genealogical Society of Gt Britain holds numerous family trees.
This data is not online but there are numerous family trees online via JewishGen.
You have now got sufficient data to provide a good starting point for your friend. Is there now data you need?
Phillip

[JulesNZ]

Good Morning Phillip, Any data I give to John will be with a caution, and that he will need to check some of it out for himself. I have tried looking for Rachel Joseph's line, but nothing sticks out. Her father is "Shmuel" I would guess that's Samuel. On the 1841 census she is 35yr so born abt 1806. She appears to have died sometime between 1841 & 1851 (names of children) Morris, Samuel, Solomon, phoebe & Elizabeth. There are a few Samuel Joseph's on Ancestry born abt 1760-1780, a few with criminal records. A marriage I found for a Samuel Jospeh to a Polly Cohen 1793, but cant tie them in.
Do the Jewish have a naming system like the Scottish with their children,
Thanks again for all your help.
Regards Julie

[phillip]

Julie
With regard to the Jewish naming I quote from My Ancestors were Jewish, Dr Anthony Joseph,1995 2nd Ed Society Of Genealogists- "The essential concept is that a person is a son or daughter of their father and a tribal or religious addition may be subsumed in the name. For example, Abraham ben Moses or Abraham ben Moses Ha-Cohen ( of the priestly line....The essential simplicity of the Jewish naming system was perhaps inadequate with the development of modern society, but it survived more or less unchanged until Napoleonic times. At this point various decrees in different parts of Europe insisted on the adoption of surnames.. The straightforward taking of biblical ( patriarchal ) names such as Abrahams, Isaacs; Cohen, Jacobs, Moses etc occurred commonly. Similraly Jews became Cohen, Levy, Israel etc.." Joseph also refers to the adoption by Jews of trade names, occupation names, place names, colour names among many derivations as well as inconsistent spellings of names.
With regard to forenames Joseph points out.."In Ashkenazi tradition, providing the grandparents are dead, the first son is given the name of the paternal grandfather and the second that of the paternal grandmother.. This is not the case for Sephardim where naming after a living relative ( usually a grandparent) is considered a form of honouring that person."
Hope this helps.
Phillip

[JulesNZ]

Hi Phillip, While I was trying to sort out the Children of Cecil Louisson & Elizabeth (Jacobs). I came across a shipping record. Victoria to NZ. Date of arrival 21 May 1877 on the ship Arawata departed from Melbourne. On board, Mr C Louisson 36, Gentleman, Mrs Louisson, children Alfd 6, Charles 4, Geo 8, Julia 10, Miss Louisson 14 whom I think is Rose & Morris 2. On the same ship was a Mr C Pyke age 28 occup Gentleman and Mrs Pyke 26, no children. I'm been unable to work out who C Pyke is.
The children I have found for Cecil are: (found 8 children)
1...Rose born 1862 London mentioned on fathers death notice married James Bickerton Fisher NZ
2...Bessie Louise unable to find a birth for her but she is a daughter mentioned on fathers Death notice married William Mansfield Hawkesbury Peacock-McRae NZ
3..David born 1875 Victoria Australia died 5wks death notice, Australia papers
4..Alfred London, ? - mentioned on fathers death notice, haven't found a marriage for Alfred -
5..Charles born Victoria Australia Johns line (also mentioned on fathers death notice) married Maria Sheen, NZ
6..George Melville born London died NZ age 21yrs found death notice for him son of Cecil Louisson
7..Morris Michael registered 1874 Victoria Australia, but I think his name was misspelt, as it should be Maurice Melville married Australia mention as youngest son of Cecil louisson married Beryl Selene Benjamin (M Loussion living in Auckland mentioned on fathers death notice - there is a Maurice Melville & Beryl living in Parnell Auckland and he was 74 when he died making birth around 1873 ) its possible that there are 2 of them ???
8..Julia Florence 1867 London married George Arthur Green NZ - mentioned on fathers death notice
On Cecil's death notice 3 sons and 3 daughters living.

[David Louisson]

Jules
I have just come back to BG after a few years. From above Phillip is far more able to answer our questions, and from quickly reading above I believe you may have got many answers, particularly on Pyke and Jacob's trees.
My main concern is my GGGF George Melville and his Isaac connection. From Philip's replies and digesting Henry Roche's researches, with Sister in Law Rachel Isaacs (nee Marks) from Montego Bay provides best link so far. Why he changed name is unknown, but fathers criminal activity and possible suicide, seems as good a reason as any, but it would be good to get some firm facts. I also ask why did Alfred, Charles and Cecilie, and later Sophia, all leave UK. I wonder if there was a problem at home - Charles went to Australia at 14 !! - may it was the spinster sisters??
Your "John" - does he live in Hamilton and have a brother David Melville. If so I met John and David 3-4 years back when on visit to NZ with wife Liba. Anyway Jules if you need any more info I will try to help,although as I said earlier, Philip is better equipped than I.
Best regards
David Melville Louisson (1940) Gloucestershire UK

[JulesNZ]

Hi David I sent you a private email with Johns contact details. Have you ever found a baptism record for George Melville Louisson. I found his marriage to Julia -Synagogue Scribes GSM231/29- Marriage George LEWISSON -Hebrew name Menachem Aryeh Manalev ( Mana Leib) -father's Hebrew name JOEL 1st March 1825-Julia PYKE -father Eliezer Lezer. So it does seem that his father was Joel. I saw somewhere that he was involved with the theatre, so maybe its a stage name, and he liked it ????. Have any wills been found ??
Regards Julie

[ABrooks]

Hi Julie, David

As you are probably aware Phillip and myself have done a lot of research on the Louisson family in an attempt to find the link between Catherine Lewis and her uncle. In her will she states that she was given a brooch by her uncle D? L? Louisson. Most of our findings are in the thread for Henry Levy Lewis and Sophia Levy Lewis. FYI I have added a new post #423 where we have discovered that James Lewis the youngest son of James Graham Lewis brother of Sophia was actually named James Graham Louisson Lewis. This adds further support for relationships between the Lewis, Isaacs and Louissons. However have not been able to identify who the uncle could be.

Adrian

[phillip]

As a very brief and small re-cap on the Louisson and to follow up on what Adrian has said here is data from the 2 volumes of The Jewish Victorian. Genealogical Information from the Jewish Newspapers transcribed and edited by Doreen Berger,Publisher Robert Boyd 1999,2004.
1871-80 volume- Alfred and George Louisson of Christchurch NZ sons of George Louisson of London - floated the Bank of NZ in 1874- relatives named include Charles L;ouisson brother; Miss H Harris sister in law; Julia Georgina Louisson sister; Edward Ely Levy brother in law; Sophia Davis sister; David Davis brother in law; Benjamin Boulton brother in law.Charles Louisson married Married Miss H Harris daughter of Mr M Harris of Christchurch NZ in 1878. Separate record and data for Frederick L Louisson and his wife Annie of 75 High Street Aldgate including death of their son Lawrence in 1879 and death of their daughter Lillian Phoebe in 1880.
Reference to George M Louisson and his children Alfred; Charles; Julia; and marriage of Julia Georgina to Edward Ely Levy third son of Hyam Levy of 123 Laurie Terrace SE- Godfrey Levy; Lawrence Levy brother in laws- married 19.5.1880 at 117 Gower St youngest daughter of George Louisson. This line relates to Lydia Levy wife of Hyam Levy with Isaac Levy brother in law; Bluma Levy mother in law; Barnett Levy father in law; Henry Levy brother in law; Rev Moss Barnett Levy brother in law. Lawrence Levy son of Hyam Levy died age 22 in 1871. In the 1861-70 Berger volume the references are to Frederick Louisson marriage Weds 7.11.1866 Whittington Club Strand 4th son of George Louisson of 30 Leman Street to Annie Isaacs eldest daughter of Isaac Isaacs of Harrow Alley Houndsditch and death of Julia Louisson on 3.12.1867 at 30 Leman St age 65. The Isaacs are Isaac Isaacs; Elizabeth Isaacs grandmother to Annie and Henry Isaacs grandfather. Elizabeth Isaacs died 22.5. 1869 at 6 Harrow Alley Houndsditch age 84 relict of Henry Isaacs. Her daughter was Jame Myers and Isaac Isaacs her son.

Phillip

[phillip]

Jules
See Synagogue Scribes Blog- How did you get that name. It's as plain as a pikestaff"- this blog specifically refers to the Pike/Pyke/Snook/Snoek name derivations with links to Pike. Suggest you check data because it looks as if Pike/Pyke individuals all relate.
Phillip