"Bessie" Sanders/Saunders b c 1871 Torquay(?)

[brentor boy]

In 1881 Bessie is shown as living in the household of James and Mary A Saunders, 7 Hoxton Road, Torquay. Mary was her step mother, her own mother, Susan, having died a year earlier.

I am having trouble in tracing her birth on BMD. This is not helped by the fact that the family name quite randomly switches between Saunders and Sanders and it seems quite possible that Bessie was a pet family name. I think I have satisfactorily eliminated Bessie Ann Sanders Mar 1871 Newton Abbot.

I would appreciate any help in finding her, either on BMD or on any subsequent census.

A further mystery, which should probably be the subject of a separate post, is the identity of her brother, "An?" b c 1865 (from 1881)

[Nicolina]

could her brother be James (from 1871 Census)? The birth year fits.

[Nicolina]

in 1911 she is still being called Bessie, born Stonehouse, so it's possible that was her name.

[brentor boy]

Thanks, Nicolina.

James looks good, but I'm not so sure about Bessie. I have not been able to find the 1911 entry to which you refer. Also Stonehouse (Plymouth) pob looks suspect. I know of no connection the Saunders would have had with that part of Devon although I realise that Mary Ann had her children in Devonport. I would like to see a continuum through 1891/1901. Still no match on BMD

[Nicolina]

I did wonder whether Bessie might have been the daughter of his second wife and came as part of the marriage deal. I've come across it several times where the step-father's surname was used.

the 1911 Census reference is: RG14PN12774 RG78PN734 RD272 SD6 ED15 SN27 She is the Housekeeper at Ben Venue, Torquay, and enumerated as SANDERS

[brentor boy]

This exactly the situation in this family.

Mary A (16) and Sarah A (14) are two of three of the children of Mary A (47) which she had with James Raymond, a married man 35 years her senior. The birthplace of both children are correctly shown as Devonport. If Bessie was also her child, it is strange that her pob should be in error. The eldest child, Richard Raymond, was living at 1 Hoxton Road with his wife Harriet. They were witnesses to the marriage of Mary Ann and James Sanders in 1880 at which time Mary Ann gave 1 Hoxton Road as her home address. I suspect she moved in with her son when she was widowed.

Mary Ann had married Thomas Hall, a Naval Pensioner, in 1870. He died in 1879. In 1871 Mary Ann Hall was living in Antony, Cornwall with daughters Mary Ann and Sarah Ann and also a Richard Hall, 11 months (?) born Antony. Thomas was "pensioner abroad". I have not found a corresponding entry for young Richard on BMD and it is strange that Mary Ann should name two sons Richard, albeit with different fathers. I have wondered if this was her first born, born 1859, but that does not explain the incorrect place of birth.

Back to Bessie. I cannot find a possible match for "Bessie" Hall/Sanders/Sanders to help me make sense of any of this. I have found a Bessie Sanders, 22, born Plymouth, a domestic servant/cook, in Bovey Tracey, in 1891 on Free Cen which could be a link in the chain, connecting to Bessie in 1911 but until I can find some supporting documentation this will have to remain conjecture.

If someone can see something I am missing, please put me out of misery!

[Wilkes_ml]

I am assuming you have checked under Elizabeth and Eliza, Lizzie etc.

There is an Eliza SANDERS born June Quarter 1869 Newton Abbot (same reg district as mother's death) 5b 147

edited to say that you can specify that the father & mother need to be James & susan, and if the parents don't match, then you will get a partial refund of the cost of the certificate, instead of paying full price.

[Wilkes_ml]

There is also an Mary Elizabeth SANDERS born March Quarter 1870 at Newton Abbot 5b 163

I would also suggest taking a look through Torquay baptism registers, as these may shed some light on her actual name given at birth.

[brentor boy]

If Bessie's age in 1881 is correct, she should appear in 1871 ( I know that's a big "if"). She is not with Mary Ann Hall/Saunders and I am struggling to find the Sa(u)nders family (via Ancestry). 1871 could, at least, give a better idea of when and possibly where she was born.

With so many possible permutations of her first name, and doubt about her second, using BMD would be a lottery, although I accept I may have to take that route. With the number of churches in Torquay, the baptism register route would also require both luck and persistence. Not that I'm averse to that - it's just that I'd like to maximise my chances of success by reducing the number of possibilities before I start.

I think I have eliminated the Bessie Sanders of Stonehouse/Plymouth. 1901 records Bessie Sanders, 32, born Stonehouse, living with her parents Henry and Mary.

[brentor boy]

I have just discovered that a Marian Louisa, daughter of James and Susan Saunders was baptised at Ellacombe, Torquay on 3 September 1871. BMD has an Elizabeth Jane M L Saunders registered in Sep Q 1871. This is the closest I have come to Bessie yet and I think is worth a certificate. Fingers crossed!