William Elder, mine owner in Sweden

[DanielPetterzon]

My name is Daniel and I research local history in Sweden. In the village we have an old abandoned manganese mine. The mine was active from about 1827 to the 1940´s.
In local tradition and history there has always been stories of scotts that once owned and worked at the mine. Sometime just after 1827 a merchant from Kircaldy, William Elder, operated the mine for roughly 10 years together with another scottsman - a mechanical engineer George Alexander. Elder is however generally considered to be the "first" owner of the mine.

The thing is that virtually nothing is known about these scots. Right now Im focusing on William Elder. But as you might think its quite hard researching this from Sweden. I dont know much of researching people in Scotland and the names of places, towns, parishes etc.
So Im basicly asking for help. Using online services and going through old papers at the brittish newspaper archive Ive been able to find some interesting facts, but other information seems impossible to find.

At his point I know the following about William Elder

• He commited suicide in Gravesend the 11/12th oct 1838. First trying to drown himself by jumping from a boat. Then hanged himself during the night afterwards.
• He lived in Sweden for the most of time between 1827-1838.
• Around 1819 he was partner in a company called Alexander Elder & Co located in Kircaldy. The company was in serius economical trouble in 1819. Such trouble that he basicly lost his mind and was commited for some time. Another partner was a George Elder. (I think Alexander Elder died before 1825.)
• As William only was 45 years old when he died he probably was born around 1793. But I havent been able to confirm this.

The things Im trying to find out but having problems with.

• When was he born, is 1793 right? Family?
• In swedish archives he is said to be married. But what was her name? Did they have any children?
• Was he related to the people in the company from Kircaldy? Perhaps his brothers?

Any help appreciated
Daniel Petterzon
Sweden

[Jan1954]

Hello Daniel - welcome to Brit-Gen,

Do you have William's death certificate? I was wondering if it would provide any clues from who had registered the death - or even possibly a last known address for him.

Certificates can be obtained from the General Register Office for £9.25 and the reference for William's death is: December quarter 1838, Gravesend registration district, volume 5, page 101. For information that you are likely to find, have a look here.

[Coromandel]

Hello Daniel and welcome to the forum

Your research sounds most interesting!

From an online tree for the Elder family, it seems that there is a monumental inscription in Kirkcaldy for a William Elder senior, born Dec. 1755, died July 1846 aged 90. Among his numerous children were George (born 1785 Edinburgh, died 1868 Kirkcaldy), Alexander (born 1786 South Leith) and William (born 25 September 1795, South Leith). It would take more investigation to show whether these are the family with Swedish connections, but the names and dates look promising:

https://
queenslandfamilytrees.com/getperson.php?personID=I113&tree=5

Again according to the above tree, William Elder senior (a glover and merchant) left a will, which might make interesting reading. I think you should be able to download a copy from the Scotland's People website. That's also the place to find many other Scottish genealogical records such as baptism, marriage and burial records, census returns, and so on. Once you've registered with them you can search their indexes for no charge, but you have to pay to see most search results or to download images of records.

[DanielPetterzon]

Thanks!
Ill take a look at that. However I think I know who registred his death. In many of the newspaper articles an old friend of William is mentioned - John Charles.

Regarding old companies are there any registers one can look these up?

[Coromandel]

Among his numerous children were George (born 1785 Edinburgh, died 1868 Kirkcaldy) . . .

This George Elder is described as a 'merchant and shipowner' in a biography of his sons William, Alexander Lang Elder, George Elder and (Sir) Thomas Elder in the 'Australian Dictionary of Biography':

https://
adb.anu.edu.au/biography/elder-william-3475

[DanielPetterzon]

Thanks,
Ive spoke with a women in australia researching these Elders. Apperently George Elders son moved to australia in 1839 with their company. Wich still exits actually.
However there is a problem with this family. The names and everyting looks REALLY good. Also the George Elder you mention born in 1785 moved to Kircaldy in 1812. And in 1819 the company Alexander Elder & co located in Kircaldy is in economical trouble. And one if its partners is .... a George Elder. So asking me I would say that my William belongs to this familly.

But when my australian contact looked up the will of William Elder (born 1755) there is no mention of any son William Elder. Only two children is mentioned George & Elisabeth. Since it is written in 1830 William should be mentioned as he still was alive then. So she thinks that only George and Elisabeth is alive in 1830 eight years before William commits suicide. In effect these arent the same Elders.
A theory could be that after the disaster in 1819 when their company basicly was bankrupted perhaps William was disinherited? Therefore not mentioned in the will. I only know that he was really troubled after this and for awhile he was commited to an mental asylum. It fits but there is no proof.
So I really need to find his birthdate. If it is 1795 its all clear.

Daniel

[DanielPetterzon]

Just realized Alexander Lang Elder is mentioned in the book "Lifes and times of James Abernethy". James worked as an engineer at the mine in the 1830´s and knew William Elder as it was in effect his boss.
In this book Abernethy mentions that he spoke with Alexander Lang Elder about the manuscript to the book.

[Jan1954]

Regarding old companies are there any registers one can look these up?

A good starting point would be the National Archives for Scotland. Have a look at their guide to Company registrations here: https://www.
nas.gov.uk/guides/companyregistration.asp

[Coromandel]

But when my australian contact looked up the will of William Elder (born 1755) there is no mention of any son William Elder. Only two children is mentioned George & Elisabeth. Since it is written in 1830 William should be mentioned as he still was alive then. So she thinks that only George and Elisabeth is alive in 1830 eight years before William commits suicide.

It can be difficult to interpret wills. Unless William Elder senior specifically says that George and Elizabeth are the only surviving children, then you can't be sure the others were all dead. William may have felt that his other children had already had their fair share of his money: he may have given money to other sons when they were setting up in business, while daughters may have had their share when they married. Alternatively some of the children could have fallen out of favour, as you suggest.

[helachau]

Leeds Intelligencer 3 May 1819
SCOTCH SEQUESTRATIONS
April 22 Alexander Elder & Co Merchants, in Kirkaldy, and George Elder and William Elder the individual partners thereof - Creditors to meet in the Exchange Hotel, Leith, 30 April and 15 May, at 1.


Re William's age - at the inquest, Oct 1838, John Charles "... supposed (him) to have been about 46 and possessed of considerable property" and ".... late of the firm of Elder and Co"