Asher's & Cohen's - London & Birmingham

[kevininlondon]

The information about the passes is unreal..when you consider the information gained from such a short

Period it does make you wonder just how much is out there which would reveal so much about
The resettlement.

As to 1851 and Martines..l stand by my beleif that before 1851 the Martines and their relatives were the East
End....
Kevin

[DavidSF]

I've read with interest all of your discussions regarding the Asher family.

David Asher and his brother's Benjamin (Zeev Wolf), Asher Meijer Asher, and Abraham Asher were all the children of Meijer Asser Schneider (b. 29 March 1764 Amsterdam d. 7 Sept 1838) and Judith (Gitella) Abrahams (b. 3 March 1775 d. 1818).

Meijer Asser Schneider was the son of Asser Meijer Schneider (b. 1720 Amsterdam) and Sarah Salomon (Kalman) (d. 1802). Meijer's other brothers and sisters were: Benjamin, Simon, Jacob, Abraham, Leentje (Leah), Salomon (Shlomo Zalman), Judic (Gittele), Isaac.

The Dutch Asscher family descends from Jacob Asser.

I'd very much like to continue this discussion with all of you.

Best regards,

David

[LisaMary]

Hi David,

Good to here from you. Yes I have in the meantime after much research got that information. But I still have one missing link which it would be amazing if you had the answer for.

My gggg grandmother was Dove Paloma Nunes Martinez. She had several children with Moses A'Cohen, off which 1 was my ggg Grandmother Abigail, another being Sarah who married David Asher. However, my still unanswered question is my Abigail was 1st married to an Asher who died. She then remarries as Abigail Asher & writes on her son's (many years later) the fact that she was an Asher & called him Moses Asher Rentell. Abigail & her Asher had a child Julia. Who lives with her sister Hannah, who is married to her fathers brother Abraham, after Abigail remarries. When Julia marries she marries at the Wrottesley Street Synagogue opened in rebellion against the main Synagogue it was only open for a few years at that time. Frustratingly, in totally unjewish tradition dear Mr Blackensee has not recorded Julia's fathers name ion the certificate - scream!!!!

I have asked the synagogue to check the records who say they can't find anything. I have spent hours searching through tomes in the local records library to no avail. Julia was born in 1837 & her daddy Asher was dead by the 1841 census as Abigail & Julia are living with Dove & Abigails sister's Hannah & Sarah in Tenter Street.

While (due to David's marriage certificate) we know David's fathers name etc his marriage cert is the 1st written evidence we have of David's life. If family tradition has continued I think my missing name Asher was David's brother. And I am desperate to know his name. Abigail's homage to calling her son so many years later "after him" although the Moses could have come from her father. But writing how she was a widowed Asher before on his birth cert is definitely a great love story.

Do you have the name of an Asher who died between 1837 & 1841 please?????

Thanks

Lisa

[LisaMary]

Hi David,
Kevin was saying we haven't heard from you for a while. We would very much like to know what other Asher info you may gave & indeed where you fit in the family. Hoping to hear from you
regards
Lisa

[phillip]

Lisa
#43- the male Asher who died between 1837 and 1841 on Free BMD are: Isaac Asher Islington Dec qtr 1837 3 136; John Asher March qtr 1838 St Pancra 1 391; Jacob Asher Sept qtr 1838 2 380; Myers Asher Sept qtr 1838 ( you already know about him); John Asher Dec qtr 1840 2 434 Abraham Asher Dec qtr 1841 Whitechapel 2 394.
Cemetery Scribes don't have records for the above but you can also cross check on JewishGen UK Data bases to identify Asher names and rule them out or in.
Phillip

[phillip]

Lisa
If relevant- Jacob Asher who died in 1838 - his death appears in the coroner's inquiry reported in The Morning Post Thursday June 21,1838. He was a fireman/stoker on the steamship Victoria which caught fire. He died in the fire and was described as a Jew buried Whitechapel Jewish Cemetery. No other details of family or names of family.
Phillip

[phillip]

Lisa- Again if relevant- The Morning Chronicle Mon June 25,1838 refers to Jacob Asher being 32 years of age ( another newspaper account has his age as about 36) with a wife and 2 children one of whom died shortly after the death of Jacob. Jacob was referred to as the Chief Engineer on the Victoria steam ship.
Phillip

[phillip]

Lisa - For other researchers- I have seen the 2nd marriage certificate for Abigail which you have posted on Ancestry. Com- to help others Abigail was married at the Parish Church of St.John's Surrey 25 August 1844 to Richard John Rentell -oilman full age; Abigail HaCohen full age- made her mark- father Abraham Cohen - Confectioner.
JewishGen UK Data bases have records for Abraham Cohen -Confectioner 3 Fleur de Lys Court Elder St 04.10.1832 with Ralph Cohen;
Abraham Cohen pastry cook 12 Stoney Lane Houndsditch 1843 jointly with DAVID CANTER; Abraham Cohen pastry cook 108 Middlesex St Whitechapel 1849-51; Abraham Cohen confectioner 25 Lamb St Spitalfields Pigot 1836

Phillip

[LisaMary]

Thank you Phillip for all your excellent information. Where did you find the "morning Chronicle" stuff et al please as I would very much like to read it & have scoured ancestry's offering & come up blank.

I have done a similar exercise with Asher deaths of the period & have ruled most out on the grounds of other living widows that re-marry after the death. The only other Asher that is escaping detection other than Judiths will is Lazarus Asher. I can find no ref anywhere other than Judiths will to his existence & thus wonder if this could be David not wishing to use the name Lazarus or indeed if he is my missing Asher.

One site has David Asher saying as being born in 1817 in Wapping (apparently from Lewin Birth Records) anyone have a copy the could scan the page please? If not I must try & get a copy I think the syngagoue scribes sell it.

The 1851 census also says he was born contrary to others in Birmingham. Which I think could certainly be where he might have been living. There is a Benjamin Asher in the Birmingham 1841 directory as a Tailor on Cheapside again other than this directory entry I can find no other ref to Benjamin in Birmingham. David's brother Benjamin is on the 1841 census in Whitechapel. Judith dieing when David & his siblings were some so young who looked after them Myer wouldn't have looked after them on his own in those days so were they fostered out to relative to look after.

Judiths will also mentions daughters plural & so far I can only find one Julia b 1815 who married Lewis Alexander. Any idea of any others

The Birmingham 1841 census of the jewish population is known to be lacking someone even wrote a thesis on the same fact, as many were shop keepers & the census taken on sunday they were either upstairs locked away from the census man or living elsewhere & apparently the synagogue lists of the day are considerably longer than the census results for the jewish population. I wonder if that list exists somewhere its not in the jewish archive at the ref library, I asked at the synagogue but drew a blank.

Lisa

[phillip]

Lisa
If you look again at #5 of this thread you can see that the 1851 Census record for David Asher has him born Rosemary Lane. I have looked several times at the original record and the place of birth is Rosemary Lane. See also on JewishGen UK 1851 Census David Asher ID 28858 which also has the address of 8 Tilley Street Spitalfields again this matches the 1851 census record and David is a hatter age 34 in 1851.
He appears in the London Electoral Registers in 1850 at 8 Tilley Street.
There is a D Asher Birmingham Pawnbroker 56 Dale End in the 1855 Birmingham PO Directory but you would need to confirm if these individuals are one in the same.
There is a Benjamin Asher born 1779 who married a Lydia ( no surname) living in 1850s at 78 Moor Street Birmingham and much earlier in the 1800s at Red Lion St. He also appears in the JewishGen 1851 UK Data base but importantly Petra Laidlaw has not been able to give a full Census record -see ID 4274. There is a Benjamin Asher at 4 Red Lion St in 1811 records. Again, you would need to confirm whether or not this Benjamin has any relevance.
The Newspaper data is available from public libraries ( I do not the extent of availability) online British Newspaper archives 1800-1900 plus The Times.
Phillip