Allen of Cawston/Hevingham/Swanton Abbott

[gemmaallen1977]

Hi

I am desperately hoping that someone reading this might be able to help me, I have a long line of Allen ancestors in Norfolk (Swanton Abbot, Hevingham and Cawston). I have been able to trace the Allen family all the way back to Cawston where a John Allen and Mary (surname unknown) are said to have been born in Cawston. An old family tree states that John was born in Cawston abt 1772 and Mary in Cawston abt 1775. They had several children Henry born 1802 and died in infancy, James born 1804, Stephen born 1805 (also died as a baby), another Henry in 1807 (died in infancy) and Laura (died in infancy) in 1809. Using online resources I have been able to find the births/deaths of all the children but I cannot find the birth of either parent, John or Mary? Nor can I find their marriage? I would really love to be able to continue my tree and would also like to know if there are still any Allen's in the Cawston area. I would be very grateful for any help at all.

Many thanks, Gemma

[p. harrison]

Hi,my family originate from Norfolk and I have found the Norfolk Family Society an excellent source of info.Also the Ancestral Villages web site is a useful site.

[Nicolina]

Hi Gemma, welcome to BritGen, the home of the Brickwall Demolish team.
My 5xGreat Grandmother was Elizabeth ALLEN (1749-1814), the daughter of Robert ALLEN and Margaret JERMY. She was born in Pulham Saint Mary Magdalene and died in Moulton, Norfolk. ALLEN seems to be quite a common name in Norfolk but if you do find a connection to Pulham, let me know.
Elaine

[gemmaallen1977]

I will, I don't have those names in my tree yet but I am currently scouring bishops registers so you never know!

[Victoria Sellwood Turner]

Hi,
I have this family as a twig on my tree and I am in the same boat as you, Gemma. Only one of John and Mary Allen's children seems to have survived babyhood and that was James 1804.
Victoria

[Pam Downes]

I'm going to be missing most of the day, so I'll post this (a) while I remember and (b) to save me having to search for it all over again.
FreeREG has a marriage of a John Allen and a Mary Frost in Easton in 1794. John's parish at the time of the marriage is Drayton. PR entry at FamilySearch.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3....D6:n2146304640

FreeREG also have John Allen and Mary Dunthorne marrying in Swannington in 1795. As well as John Allen and Mary Gedge marrying St Martin at Palace, Norwich in 1795.

I don't know if any of those marriages have been checked and dismissed because of children being baptised in those parishes at the same time as children being baptised in Cawston.

As many of the Cawston children died in infancy, Mary could have lost other children in infancy elsewhere or had miscarriages. It was, I think, my 2 x great grandparents who were married for 11 years before I've found a child born to them.

Pam

[gemmaallen1977]

Hi Victoria and Pam

Thanks for your posts regarding the brick wall of John and Mary! I have had a little bit of input from another lady at another forum some time ago and I have been continuing to investigate this over the last couple of months. There are two definite possibilities, Mary Dunton/Danthorne (although there are children born in a neighbouring parish (Haveringland from 1796 - 1801) first before the children we know of being born in Cawston) or Mary Gedge. I initially thought Mary Gedge but am now thinking more than likely Mary Dunton/Danthorne due to some advice given to me at the Society of Genealogists in September about looking for the names Laura and Henry as they were not as common in those times and see if I could find a match in one of the parents trees. However it is late now (midnight) and I've only just seen this reply of this morning. Tomorrow I will look through my notes again and post more in detail - However if I recall I think I managed to match Mary Frost up having different children at the same times as this John and Mary. I will post more tomorrow. I cannot find a John born 1772 but I think that the John that married Mary Dunton/Danthorne was the John born in Swannington in 1770. Thanks for your posts on this subject, Gemma

[gemmaallen1977]

Hello

Further to the recent posts I have looked back at the Mary and John marriage. I have come up with two possibilities (with the help of others as well) that are the most probable for John and Mary:

The fist option is of a John Allen who was baptised on 18 April 1773 in Great Walsingham, Norfolk, England. There is a marriage of John Allen to Mary Gedge in Norwich, Norfolk on two dates (18 January and 15 February 1795) and then there would be the five children born in Cawston to them - (However there is nothing to prove that either came from Cawston area).

The children that we are sure of being born to John and Mary in Cawston are:
Henry (Baptised 5 September 1802 and buried 9 December 1802 in Cawston)
James (Baptised 1 January 1804 in Cawston)
Stephen (Baptised 7 April 1805 and buried 16 June 1805 in Cawston)
Henry (second) (Baptised 11 January 1807 and buried 13 April 1807 in Cawston)
Laura (Baptised 16 March 1809 and buried 28 July 1809).

I have not been able to find any other confirmed children and I have a copy of an old family tree that was given to my grandfather that states that James was the only surviving child (however this was done a long time ago and I don't know if they checked other parishes, etc as it was probably before the online genealogy days).

I haven't been able to find different children born to a Mary Gedge so I haven't been able to disprove her as John's wife and mother of these children.

The second option (and the one that I am now starting to lean towards) is:

John Allen baptised 16 February 1770 son of William Allen and Laura in Swannington, Norfolk. There is then a marriage of John Allen to Mary Danthorne (or Dunton) in Swannington on 21 December 1795. The following children are then born to this John and Mary:

James (baptised 11 September 1796) in Swannington
Sarah (baptised 14 January 1798) in Haveringland (parish next to Swannington and Cawston) and the mother's name is given as Mary Dunton Allen
Peter baptised 8 December 1799 Haveringland
John baptised 22 March 1801 Haveringland.

As I mentioned in my previous post I discussed this brick wall with an expert at the Society of Genealogists last September and they advised me to look for the more unusual names of the children, such as Henry and Laura, within the families of the parents to narrow down the possibilities. John born 1770 in Swannington has a brother Peter and his mother is also called Laura and I think that Mary Danthorne/Dunton also had a family member called Henry (need to double check that).

If the Mary Danthorne/Dunton and John Allen of Swannington is correct then it fits that the children are born up until 1801 and then the following children are from 1802 in Cawston...

Obviously I could be completely wrong about all or any of this and I would very much appreciate any help/advice or input as to other's thoughts on this.... Thank you, Gemma.

[Pam Downes]

Gemma,
I'm only just getting back to this.
I've just been checking on FreeREG, and there are more children born there to John and Mary after 1801.
Ann in 1811 and Mark in 1815.
Which would fit with those born in Cawston up to 1809.

Pam

[gemmaallen1977]

Hi Pam

Thanks for looking for me - I think that there is quite a high possibility that this could be the correct John and Mary as there is nothing otherwise to indicate Mary Gedge and the marriage in Norwich?

Once again thank you to everybody who has replied to this post, I appreciate all help! Gemma