WILLIAM RICHARDSON

[Cockney-Sparra]

Hi,
I'm looking for any info on my Gt.Gt Grandfather- William Richardson b. 1818 in Leicestershire. His father was also William (no idea of birth place/year). They were both Engineers!
William married Elizabeth Jenner in Westminster, London in 1840 and lived in and around the St. Pancras/Westminster/Southwark areas. I can't find definite info on him after 1863 when they were living at 16, Gray Street, Westminster (the address given on his son's baptism record). They had 4 children-William b.1843 in Fulham/Mary Jane Caroline b. 16th Sept 1855 in St.Pancras/John Frederick b. 1859 in Limehouse, East London/James Charles b. 1862 in Westminster.
I've been unable to find William in any of the census records- 1871/81/91 . I do have a death record for a William Richardson b.1818 who died in Southwark in 1893 but I'm not 100% certain it is my William...
Also, I can't find any trace of his son-John Frederick Richardson after his baptism on the 11th Apr 1863 at St.Paul, Westminster Bridge.
I would be so grateful for any help with this...Thanks

[Raffaele]

Family Search has this William Richardson back in Leicester in 1871. He has an apprentice! and a wife Mary

There are a number of potential deaths for Elizabeth Richardson in the 1860's London area.

William Richardson, 53, Head, Leicestershire
Leicester, West, Parish: St Mary

William Richardson M 53 Leicestershire
Mary Richardson F 55 Leicestershire
Apprentice Roland Bonser M 14 Clipstone, Northamptonshire

[Thomasin]

William seems to have been much-married. In 1851 (HO107; 1471; 154; 14 copyright TNA) his wife Elizabeth is one year older than he is, and was born in Kent. In 1861 (RG09; 331; 167; 51 copyright TNA) Elizabeth was six years younger, and born in Gloucestershire.

[Cockney-Sparra]

Hi Raffeale,
I don't think he returned to Leicestershire. I'm beginning to wonder if the family were just visiting Leicestershire when he was born there and didn't actually come from there. I have possible siblings for him, younger and older and all born in St.Pancras, London-Father William Richardson/Engineer, on their baptism records, but I can't find any baptism or birth registration for William. My only info is from his marriage certificate and the 1841/51/61 census, also, his children's baptism & marriage records... William seemes to have been in London from a young age and his children -My Gt. Grandmother Mary Jane Caroline and her brother James Charles definitely grew up, married and died in London. I have a death record for Elizabeth having died in 1906 in Holborn, London (not totally sure it's the right one, though) but I can't find any trace of William and Elizabeth in the census records after 1861...only their son's baptism in 1863, then the trail goes cold!
Thank you for your help, anyway!

[Cockney-Sparra]

William seems to have been much-married. In 1851 (HO107; 1471; 154; 14 copyright TNA) his wife Elizabeth is one year older than he is, and was born in Kent. In 1861 (RG09; 331; 167; 51 copyright TNA) Elizabeth was six years younger, and born in Gloucestershire.

Hi Thomasin,
It's the same 'Elizabeth'!...It threw me for a long time but then I was informed that the info on census records often varied and was incorrect. Ages and places of birth were commonly erronous. I've found it throughout my searches. I sometimes wonder if the registrars enjoyed a wee tipple haha...
I have an another of my ancestors who I'm certain of ,that gets younger and younger on every census and place of birth was never the same. There are many reasons why this happens i.e. People unsure of their year/place of birth, Lying (for whatever reason), or Those filling in the Census forms -making mistakes...Apparently they didn't always talk to the actual people but would take info from neighbours, who weren't always certain of the facts etc.
Anyway, thanks for your help!

[Cockney-Sparra]

P.S.
My Gt.Gt Grandmother- Elizabeth Jenner, was actually born in Bloomsbury, London- 10th Oct 1824. I have her Baptism Record...

[Peter Goodey]

It's the same 'Elizabeth'!...It threw me for a long time but then I was informed that the info on census records often varied and was incorrect.

Sorry but that's not a good enough reason to conclude that it's the same person. You need to get some birth certificates of the children in order to obtain the mother's maiden name.

Which birth certificates have you got? Which one gave you "Jenner"?

[Coromandel]

Hello Cockney-Sparra and welcome to the forum

Have you ruled out the William Richardson who was in the workhouse at Edmonton in 1891? (a widower, born about 1818 in Leicestershire). His occupation is given as 'smith', which is not inconsistent with the 'engine smith' stated on an earlier census.

(I saw this at the library earlier but failed to note down the census reference, sorry.)

[Cockney-Sparra]

Sorry but that's not a good enough reason to conclude that it's the same person. You need to get some birth certificates of the children in order to obtain the mother's maiden name.

Which birth certificates have you got? Which one gave you "Jenner"?

I have my Gt. Grandmother's Baptism Certificate...Mary Jane Caroline Richardson (baptized 6th Oct 1855-St Pancras).../Father- William Richardson/Mother- Elizabeth. William's occupation-Engineer...
They were living at Grafton Place, Euston Rd, London...
I found William & Elizabeth's marriage certificate on Ancestry.co.uk...They married in Westminster, 20th Apr 1840.
William's father was also- William Richardson/occupation-Engineer, Elizabeth's father-William Jenner/Occupation-Smith

I found them living in Fulham in 1851 and they had a son William b. 1843 Leicestershire but in the 1861 census, William is listed as born 1843 in Fulham and Elizabeth's age and place of birth differ to the 1851 census (another example of census errors) but it is definitely the same family. My Gt. Grandmother is with them in the 1861 census.

The only evidence I have of Elizabeth's maiden name being 'Jenner' is, her marriage to William Richardson. From this I found her Baptism record and her father's details. Her mother is named as Maria...

[Peter Goodey]

Birth certificates provide the mother's maiden name, baptism records do not.

This is why you need to get at least Mary Jane Caroline's birth certificate (because she is your direct line). If there is doubt about the identity of the father's wife (and there seems to be doubt here because of the variation in age and birth place) you may need birth certificates of other children.

It's a common observation in genealogy, only slightly tongue in cheek, that if a man remarries, his new wife will more often than not have the same forename as the first