Name Changing ............

[AudreyF]

I've been researching my husband's grandmother for many years. I've had various posts on here and received valuable help. I have now decided, definitively, that grannie did not marry grandad and that my father-in-law was, therefore, almost certainly illigitimate although we doubt anyone but the main players would have known.

Tracking grannie through the years in the electoral rolls reveals that my father-in-law's father used a different name almost any time he, or grannie, were asked his name. He/grannie seemed to use his proper name of Charles Ernest Hawkins or Charles Hawkins sometimes and, other times, he was noted as Charles Fleming -her married name from her first husband (who, in turn, got it from his step-father!).

I have a theory now that Charles Hawkins may not have married grannie because he was already married so I'm off to look at that and see if he appears with his real name anywhere else in the electoral register.

It must have been very confusing for them to know which name to use, when etc. etc. but how did the name get on to the electoral roll? Was a form sent round to the house for the householder to fill in? Presumably, no checks were made as to accuracy and the householder could put what he/she liked? A problem might occur with jury service, perhaps.


Audrey

[spison]

Fascinating stuff Audrey,
They must have needed a good memory. I don't know anything about British Electoral Rolls and voting but are they actually there? I know that in Australia it is possible (now) to avoid being on a roll simply by not filling in the form but can't be certain about the process for being on the roll last century. (Australia has compulsory voting.)
Jane

[MarkJ]

Anyone in the UK can call themselves anything they like as long as there is no criminal intent to their using another name.
If I decide to call myself Harry Bloggs, then all I have to do is simply to start filling in forms etc as "Harry Bloggs".
The only problem will occur if I need to apply for something such as a state benefit, passport or driving licence etc. In that case, I would need to make it "official" via a "deed poll" - but in days gone by you probably didn't want a passport or driving licence and state benefits didn't exist anyway.
On many parish registers you will see entries such as "Mark Smith als Jones" or other similar entries which indicate that the person is known by more than one name.
One of my own ancestors uses a variety of variants of his name on each marriage certificate or birth certificate, but perhaps because he was a bit of a rogue and a bigamist to boot!

[AudreyF]

Yes, I've heard about calling yourself anything you like as long as there is no criminal intent but wouldn't an electoral form giving the right to vote qualify as something rather official? A person could be wangling multiple votes.

In all the theorising about whether grannie married, or not, and how and why Charles Hawkins used his wife's name we had never considered that he may already be married to another lady so that's my new line of investigation now. I still can't quite get my head around the idea that he registered his own son's name with that of another man and signed himself in the name of another man - I would have thought the male ego would not cope with that one very well. But, who knows - grannie may have been a force to reckon with!

[kermie62]

Yes, I've heard about calling yourself anything you like as long as there is no criminal intent but wouldn't an electoral form giving the right to vote qualify as something rather official? A person could be wangling multiple votes.

In all the theorising about whether grannie married, or not, and how and why Charles Hawkins used his wife's name we had never considered that he may already be married to another lady so that's my new line of investigation now. I still can't quite get my head around the idea that he registered his own son's name with that of another man and signed himself in the name of another man - I would have thought the male ego would not cope with that one very well. But, who knows - grannie may have been a force to reckon with!

We have a rather amusing story in our family regarding grandmother having the baby, sending granddad off to register the birth who stopped on the way to "christen the baby" with his borther and a few mates. Granddad got too drunk to continue and his brother decided to do it for him being only marginally bit more sober himself The upshot was that the uncle ended up being put down as the father not granddad and it had to be amended later. It does happen. Also had a great uncle die quiet young and the registrar mixed up Dads and sons names on death register. So it does happen

I also had an ancestor who was a scoundrel and rather than change names, he moved states. Unfortunately his earlier wife who he had married bigamously had named thier child Gordon after her mainden name so the poor kid became Gordon Gordon

[MarkJ]

Yes, I've heard about calling yourself anything you like as long as there is no criminal intent but wouldn't an electoral form giving the right to vote qualify as something rather official? A person could be wangling multiple votes.

Electoral rolls are compiled from the information given. My own entry for example used to give my first name, middle name and surname. Over time, it gave my second name, my first name and surname... It now just gives my first name and surname.

*If* I had deliberately given my second name and then first name with an intention to also vote with my first name then second name, then I would have attepmted to commit fraud - which would be illegal. As it happens, it was just an incorrect form completion.

[Megan Roberts]

I have a theory now that Charles Hawkins may not have married grannie because he was already married so I'm off to look at that and see if he appears with his real name anywhere else in the electoral register.Audrey

When was he born and in which area? There are lots of marriages for a Charles E Hawkins and one for a Charles Ernest G, but only one for a Charles Ernest; 1890 Kensington.

[olliecat]

When was he born and in which area?

There are a couple of threads by AufreyF on Charles HAWKINS/FLEMING here.

Electoral Rolls/Registers

Did they marry?

[AudreyF]

When was he born and in which area? That's a very good question. My mother-in-law (our only source of information) says he "came from Aylesbury". Without a marriage certificate we have no idea how old he was, or who his father was nor what he did for a living so whilst I can see lots of men named Charles E. Hawkins I can't know which one is mine!

On his son's 1923 birth certificate he says he is Charles Ernest Fleming a hotel butler. When grannie died his son (my father-in-law) said she was the widow of Charles Fleming "a restauranteur". My mother-in-law said similar but then she only had their information to go on too!

[AudreyF]

As Olliecat has helpfully referred to the previous thread concerning this couple (Bertha and Thomas and Charles) I ought to update you on that line.

I did get the relevant certificates for Thomas James Hitchcock (who became Fleming and married Bertha) and the theory was correct. He was the son of Teresa Hitchcock and her first husband. Husband then died and she re-married William Fleming and they had children. Thomas James assumed the surname of his step-father and married under that name. I haven't found any clues that Thomas and Charles were related.

I haven't been able to find a death for Thomas James Fleming or Hitchcock and the probate calendar shows nothing conclusive, i.e. no mention of Bertha as widow. Similar story on the probate for a Charles Fleming or Charles Hawkins - nothing mentioning a Bertha.

I am absolutely convinced that Charles and Bertha did not marry although everything father-in-law said (and wrote) would suggest he didn't know or kept it very quiet. Charles and Bertha obviously lived together as man and wife and he knew them as Mum and Dad in the conventional sense - outings etc.

I can't find proof of Thomas James Fleming (born Hitchcock's) death nor the death of Charles Ernest Fleming/Hawkins. It may be that Thomas did not die and that is why Bertha could not marry Charles - in addition to the possibility that Charles was also married to someone else and not free to marry Bertha.