Joseph James Perry

[Deb525]

I'm trying to track down my 3x great grandfathers birth somewhere around 1841 to 1845
So far I know;
He died in 1923 in Napier, New Zealand and on the certificate it says his father was Henry Perry Hotel Keeper and that he was born in Warwickshire
In the 1861 census (I believe it to be him) he is an apprentice Cordwainer, from Birmingham
He married Eliza Hall in 1862 in Aston Warwickshire (aged 22), no parents are listed but he is a Cordwainer/Shoemaker
The 1871 census said he was born in Edgbaston and had 8 children,Joseph Henry,Rosanna,Albert,Julia,Henry Ernest,Elizabeth,William and Ann
By 1874 he was in New Zealand
My problem is I can't find a Joseph being born to a Henry Perry in Warwickshire, and there are so many Joseph Perry's Its hard to narrow it down. As I can't get to any of the non-online documents in the UK does anyone have any suggestions for what I could try next?

Thank you in Anticipation!

[olliecat]

He married Eliza Hall in 1862 in Aston Warwickshire (aged 22), no parents are listed but he is a Cordwainer/Shoemaker

Hi Deb525

Could you clarify this part for us as I am unclear if you have seen this marriage certificate? Are you saying that his father's name is not recorded?

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Note: Here are the census refs for anyone wishing to help.

1861: Piece: 2135 Folio: 17 Page: 28
1871: Piece: 3135; Folio: 92; Page: 2

[geneius]

Hello Deb525

There is a marriage entry on familysearch.org

groom's name: Joseph Perry
bride's name: Eliza Hall
marriage date: 12 Aug 1862
marriage place: Aston Juxta Birmingham,Warwick,England
indexing project (batch) number: M01168-5
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 0918846-848, 0918849-851

I have checked a few others for the same time period and place and note none has the father recorded!

Suggets you order the Parish Register film ( i.e original source) via the familyresourcecentre to check it out.

[Deb525]

Hi
Thanks for the quick reply, I have seen the certificate and neither parents names are recorded. Joseph Perry's occupation is listed as cordwainer, would anyone know if apprenticeship records for shoemakers exist? I'll definitley have a look at the parish register film

[olliecat]

Joseph Perry's occupation is listed as cordwainer, would anyone know if apprenticeship records for shoemakers exist?

Unfortunately for us, official records of apprentices were only kept in England and Wales between 1710 and 1811. This was because stamp duty was payable on indentures of apprenticeship during this period. See this National Archives guide here or a more extensive one here if you wish to know more.

However for the time period you are interested in, one point to consider is that if he was a pauper or dependent in some way on the parish then there could be a record relating to an apprenticehip. In other words, it may worth checking the Poor Law records. If you search the Warwickshire or the Birmingham Archives you can see what they hold with respect to apprenticeship records.

For example, a brief search of their catalogue brings up...

GP B/11/1 Apprenticeship Indentures

GP AS Aston Poor Law Union
(although this relates to the Aston Union)

As an aside, I think there are some Warwickshire poor law records on Ancestry but I don't think they have been indexed and I'm not sure which poor law unions they cover (but I'll poke around a little later on to see what they have.)

[olliecat]

I have seen the certificate and neither parents names are recorded.

In which case, one possibility is that he was illegitimate. What addresses were recorded and what were the names of the witnesses to the marriage?

BTW: I came across this on Family Search but whether he is yours or not I don't know. I wonder if this Joseph can be found in the census with his mother.

name: Joseph Perry
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 05 Jun 1846
baptism/christening place: Saint Phillips, Birmingham
birth date: 13 Aug 1844
mother's name: Ann Perry

[geneius]

Hi
Thanks for the quick reply, I have seen the certificate and neither parents names are recorded. Joseph Perry's occupation is listed as cordwainer, would anyone know if apprenticeship records for shoemakers exist? I'll definitley have a look at the parish register film

Sorry to be pedantic, do you havew a copy of the actual marriage certificate or a copy of the Parish Register entry, what is seen on familysearch may only be a resume.

I would have expected to see the age of the couple / addresses where living at the time of the event / and the witnesses names, which hopefully may be relatives!

[geneius]

1871: Piece: 3135; Folio: 92; Page: 2

Shows
Joseph PERRY as 26
Eliza PERRY 31 therefore if they were married in 1862 Joseph would be a minor aged 17 which agrees with the 1861 census! As a minor parental consent maybe needed.

[Deb525]

I have a copy of the actual marriage certificate from the GRO.The address for both of them is Bordesley and the witnesses are a Harriet and a Thomas, their surname is difficult to decipher, it looks something like Toney or Torney. Eliza his wife had a Harriet and a Thomas as siblings. The illegitimate theory works, as under the fathers name is says not known. Can you only view the indenture records in Birmingham?