Essex Conundrum

[sueannbowen]

I was looking for the birth/baptism of Ann(e) Mathams (Matthames/Mathames) in Essex Ancestors. I found 2 possibles in the Great Waltham Registers of St Mary and St Lawrence:
Anne daughter of Robert and Mary Mathams baptised 2(?) May 1765 (image 59) and
Anne daughter of Robert and Mary Mathams baptised 6 October 1770 (image 90)

I have been right through the deaths in case the first Ann died and can only find one Ann Mathams death - 8th November 1778 daughter of Robert Mathams! 'My' Ann married James Hart in 1788 in Boreham (where they went on to have children). I have found an 1841 census entry for both James and Ann (living in Boreham) which gives her likely year of birth as 1766 which would match the first baptism entry.

There is a possible marriage in Great Waltham for a Robert Mathams and Mary Bedwell on 28/11/1770 slap bang in the middle of the two baptisms! So, is the first one mine and if so why did Robert and Mary go on to name another child by a living child's name?

[Waitabit]

Sue, might they have had Ann/e baptised twice to make her legit after the marriage?

[sueannbowen]

Sue, might they have had Ann/e baptised twice to make her legit after the marriage?

Hmm that's a possibility Wendy. Hadn't thought of that. I have really searched the registers for both Great Waltham and Boreham as the families flit between but there are no other Robert and Mary's either so it is not a different couple. We all know of families that rename a new baby after a deceased child but not after a living one! I have also looked all over those parishes for another Ann Mathams with different parents but no luck. Plenty of Mathams in Great Waltham but not another Ann. So I think she must be mine and I will take the baptism of '65 as the closest. TVM for your suggestion. By the way, the promised envelope is on its way to you!!

[Waitabit]

Oh Taa Sue, love mail. Don't get alot in the letter box. Himself gets it all- if not I hand it over anyway. Seems the polite thing to do.

[sueannbowen]

Went airmail so fingers crossed it won't be long.

[sueannbowen]

Ok confession time very sloppy initial research on my part! Rechecked the Great Waltham Registers. There are baptisms for 2 Robert Mathums one in 1723 and one in 1743. So I think that both of them went on to marry Marys a common name at the time. I think the obvious answer to the conundrum is the right one. There were two Anns and two Robert and Mary parents rather than one Ann who got herself baptised twice. Kicks self, must try harder next time.........

[fedup]

Sue, I have connections with the Mathams in Great Waltham, and Robert who was born c1723 and married Mary Matthews is my 6x great uncle. I have Robert and Mary with a string of children including the two Anne you mention, and also have the same burial date for both these Annes, 8 Nov 1788. Agree it's likely that the second Anne born 1766 probably belongs to Robert b1743 and Mary Bedwell. I have their marriage 28 Nov 1770 at Great Waltham, but I currently show no children for them.

However, I'm off on holiday shortly and won't be back before the beginning of August. I have therefore asked my cousin Gail to contact you about this via BG, as she has more proficiency than I do, and may have some answers for you. She is doing a one-name study of the Mathams. Would be very interested to know how you connect to the family.

Jan (nee Mathams)

[sueannbowen]

Yay how exciting! Have a wonderful holiday Jan and I look forward to hearing from Gail. Whichever Ann it turns out to be is my 4th great grandmother and therefore one of the Roberts is my 5th GG grandfather. Happy to shar all research so far.

[fedup]

Might be able to move things along a little further having heard from my cousin on this. This is broadly what we have at the moment:
Robert Mathams born c1723 married Mary Matthews c1752. I show Anne born c1765 and baptised 5 May 1765 at Great Waltham. This is my line. At the moment I also show them with children born 1771, 1772 and Anne in 1776. (I don't think the second Anne was born 1770. Page 90 of the baptism images shows 1776??)

As you rightly say, there was another Robert Mathams born c1743 who married Mary Bedwell at Great Waltham 28 Nov 1770. From what you have said, I would think it entirely possible that the children I have listed born 1771, 1772 and Anne born 1776, are Mathams/Bedwell children, rather than Mathams/Matthews children, although there is no way of being certain. Would Robert born c1723 have still been having children well into his 50s? However if that's right, it must have been Anne, dau of Robert born 1723 who married James Hart in 1788 in Boreham, and Anne dau of Robert born c1743 who died at about age 2 in 1778.

That's the line I'm going with for now, with a note that I can't be certain about all this.

Do you have James and Ann Hart in 1851 in Boreham? Would love to know how you fit into the picture. It certainly sounds like we have ancestors in common.

[fedup]

Just looking again at this, can you please let me have the reference for the 1841 census entry in Boreham for James and Ann Hart?