HENRY MORWITCH & SOPHIA LAZARUS

[phillip]

The Australia Death Index records: Emelie Nathan. Death Place: Heidelberg, Victoria Age 74. Father-Valentine VOUSDEN; Mother- Mary Ann BURGESS
Reg No1137; Victoria Est Birth Year 1870

There are a range of reference to Valentine Vousden which indicate he was an actor/singer amongst other work. As yet I cannot locate the Death Index record for Joseph Alfred Nathan
Phillip

[Dom1]

I can confirm that Joseph Alfred Nathan is (was) another of my cousins. In my records he died 1947. No children. There is no death index for him. I have yet to complete transferring about 100 Nathan trees from my files onto Ancestry. They are in the jpg format and hard to decipher as the ink has faded.

[Dom1]

Phillip, there are several Levys on the Nathan trees who do not relate to my Levy ancestral line, some of these are nonetheless blood cousins but a few are not . There are no other Morwitch members on The Nathan Trees and Sophie is 1 of 2 Lazarus members. The other one is a spouse on one of The Beddington branches. I read through your initial posts rather hurriedly I'm afraid and did not realize that Sophie had re-married Henry Morwitch. I don't know who Lewis Lazarus was but there are other Lazarus members on my tree. All of them are spouses. The surname of Lewis does not appear on any Nathan tree, except in a late marriage which I previously mentioned and now think is wrong. My great great grand Uncle David Levy did change his name to Lewis (Lewis's of Liverpool) but only 2 of his nephews who went into the buisness followed suit. One of them was great grandftather. He is of course a Nathan descendant. For privacy reasons I don't wish to divulge too much of my family in a public space but I'm happy to confirm any facts re: The Nathans you're unsure of within reason.
Dominic

[phillip]

Thank you Dominic and Robert for your responses to the latest posts. I think between us we can fill in some of the gaps on our various family trees. We all have varying numbers of Cohen, Levy etc on our trees. In the example of my Crawcour lines I have significant Levy and Cohen but also Isaac Crawcour marrying Esther Cashmore 1816-1883 daughter of Joseph Cashmore and Esther Nathan; Verna Sylvia Nathan 1888-1947 dau of S Nathan ( have yet to identify who he is) m Isaac Crawcour; Louisa Crawcour m Isaac Nathan son of Nathaniel Nathan - there are others but the Crawcour/Cashmore lines are all Australian.
I also have Philip Lawrence 1849-1930 son of Samuel Lazarus and Sarah Solomon- change of surname from Lazarus; Samuel Lazarus b 1847 son of Nathaniel Lazarus and Dinah Solomon. All in Australia. This is but a very brief and limited number of names relating to my Australian distant relatives. The data I hold on the lines is significant.
I have yet to re- visit the Jacobstree website to review the names.
Where possible I have tried to locate primary sources for all the data I have posted because this allows other researchers the opportunity to identify links based on informed information. Between us I am sure we can unpick further relationships.
Phillip

[phillip]

Dominic
You referred in post 13 of this thread to Sophia re-marrying to Henry Morwitch. Was that an error given her maiden name was Lazarus and her father was named as Lewis Lazarus. What did you think about Henry Morwitch marrying in Hyam Nathan's residence? In addition, I have been puzzling over the reference to Sophia being an aunt of Joseph Arthur Nathan. Is the link via Sophia's mother?
Phillip

[phillip]

Without complicating the Nathan searches further this post relates to the marriage of Isaac (Dick) Crawcour to Verna Sylvia Nathan. Verna's parents were Samuel Nathan and Rose Waterman. Samuel's parents were John Nathan and Sarah Green- see Synagogue Scribes Gt Synagogue Records GSMa 045/64 -20 th August 1845 - John Nathan - father Shmuel- Sarah Green- father- Abraham HaLevi. Verna Nathan 1888-1947

Nb See also the posts SAMUEL NATHAN- REVISITED on Jewish Roots which identifies the various lines relating to these families.

I have not researched the collaterals of my Crawcour lines in any detail except where they touched on my other lines.
Phillip

[Dom1]

Phillip, apologies, I've made an error, a consequence of having to refer back to the original post on page 1. I now have the forum open in 2 seperate tabs and can see better. If I might summarise.

Hyam Edward Nathan married Sarah Lazarus (d of Lewis)
Henry Morwith married Sophie Lazarus (d of Lewis) at Hyam Edward Nathan's residence
Sophie & Sarah are sisters therefore Sophie is Joseph Edward's aunt

The Morwitch family has nothing to do with The Nathans other than Henry is Joseph's uncle by marriage and The Lazarus family only relates to Hyam Edwards descendants which explains the lack of information in the Nathan trees chronicling the descendants of my great....grandfathers Hyam Nathan & Judah Nathan.

Some genealogists feel the need to chronicle in-law cousins and their families I don't as I'm only interested in blood relatives. I never list the parents of spouses unless the spouse has siblings who married blood relatives which, as you know, was a common practice in Jewish Families, especially those living in Australia & New Zealand.

None of The Nathans you mention in post 14 are the descendants of Hyam or Judah. The only Nathaniel Nathan (1841-1923) on my tree married Mary Collins. I only have 1 child for this marriage and his name is not Issac. The 2 Esther Nathans on my trees both married Moses, Henry & Moss. None of The Solomons you mention belong to my branch. That said I have no siblings for my great X3 grandfather Samuel Solomon so who knows.

I do concede that there are gaps in The Nathan trees, some British branches inadvertently stop. But all Australian & New Zealand Nathans are pretty much accounted for.Your Nathans might belong to the Birmingham Nathans, one of these Albert Henry (1860-1940) married one of my Solomons.

There is a British Cashmore branch on my tree via a marriage to a Van Praagh cousin.

There are no Crawcours on any of my trees, Cohen, Nathan, Levy, Solomon etc but my cousin Alice Moses (1848-?) marred Michael Simons (1843-1925), son of Benjamin & Hannah (born Crawcour).

Re: records. All of my information has been sourced from records found on Ancestry, in Synaggue records, via newspapers, and several trees that have been painstakingly researched by various cousins in Australia, New Zealand and the UK. Fortunately my families have been well chronicled and I have roughly 40 books written by members of or pertaining to my family. The research of course is never finished and I do make a habit of double-checking each member of the tree as I have found errors.

Once more apologies Phillip for adding to the confusion

Dominic

[phillip]

Thank you Dominic for the very useful summary. Like you I don't look in any detail at all the connections beyond my specific bloodlines unless they help in filling in gaps.
Phillip

[Antipodean]

Gentlemen, as a recent arrival to this forum, I wish to thank you both for your informed discourse. I am a descendant of the Morwitch family, and the post you picked up from another site was probably mine from several years ago. I am nowhere near as experienced as you both at picking apart family relationships, and will need to read this material several times to understand its implications for my research (to which I have only recently returned). Thank you both once again.