William Toms where are you in1891

[Ladkyis]

You don't know the half of it Grisel, I have spent 15 years chasing actors and thought I would do an easy bit of the tree for a change... perhaps if I did the Jewish branch before 1800 it would be easier eh?

Being useless at finding stuff on this here intarwebby doesn't make things easier for me either. Mutley and the others will tell you that I search for hours but don't seem to be able to get to grips with wildcards and lateral thinking when using a search engine.

Thank goodness for the members of B-G, I would still be wondering about all of my lot without you!

[valg]

Hi Val

Thanks for checking these. Thought Pearl was likely to be actually Peart on the marriage.
Sorry don't always explain things too clearly. Boys names also Peart on Wilts BMD but mother's maiden name helpfully given. I couldn't see any birth for Emily as either Peart (or variant) or Shipton. I came to think that maybe that if Emily was a first baby the parents didn't realise that they had to register the birth. I wonder if she was baptised.

I was wondering something similar about William/George Peart. By 1866 mother Caroline was dead and young Emily possibly in service in Charfield - has baby William/George in Charfield then brings him home to Sopworth - again not realising she has to register the birth. All guesswork of course.

You could very well be correct re births not being registered

An interesting family Ladkyis!

Very frustrating that no birth shows for Emily,,as the marriage for the Pearts and the 2 boys births are reg under Malmesbury you would expect to find Emily the same..female births on freebmd for the same area there is nothing even remotely like Emily.
Doing a phoenetic search for same time frame for Malmesbury there is a Emma Priddy but checking census this is appears to be Emma Preddy.
Intersting though it would appear that the son Thomas may have been a twin as there is a Ruth Peart listed on the same page and same volume number as him..if not the 2 births were very close as there is a Ruth correct age living with what appears to be Johns parents...maybe they were helping out..

[grisel]

Intersting though it would appear that the son Thomas may have been a twin as there is a Ruth Peart listed on the same page and same volume number as him..if not the 2 births were very close as there is a Ruth correct age living with what appears to be Johns parents...maybe they were helping out..

Had another look on Wilts Bmd. Both Thomas and William are down as Pert rather than Peart and at Malmesbury West, Chippenham dist.
Ruth is also Pert and also at Malmesbury West, Chippenham.
Ruth's reference is MW/6/452 and no maiden name given for mother.
Thomas is MW/6/449, mother's maiden name Shipton.
Think we would need to see the certificate or the parish register to see what the relationship was. I'm sure there is one even if not actually twins.

[valg]

Had another look on Wilts Bmd. Both Thomas and William are down as Pert rather than Peart and at Malmesbury West, Chippenham dist.
Ruth is also Pert and also at Malmesbury West, Chippenham.
Ruth's reference is MW/6/452 and no maiden name given for mother.
Thomas is MW/6/449, mother's maiden name Shipton.
Think we would need to see the certificate or the parish register to see what the relationship was. I'm sure there is one even if not actually twins.

If not twins they are cousins as they share the same grandparents, Johns parents..Peart seemed to be reg transcribed as Pert..suppose it was how it sounded to whoever was writing it down and if the person giving the info was illiterate then they wouldnt know either..

[valg]

Had another look on Wilts Bmd. Both Thomas and William are down as Pert rather than Peart and at Malmesbury West, Chippenham dist.
Ruth is also Pert and also at Malmesbury West, Chippenham.
Ruth's reference is MW/6/452 and no maiden name given for mother.
Thomas is MW/6/449, mother's maiden name Shipton.
Think we would need to see the certificate or the parish register to see what the relationship was. I'm sure there is one even if not actually twins.

Looks like Ruth married george Shipp in Bristol in 1880, they can be found on 1881 census RG11; Piece: 2512; Folio: 34; Page: 9 Yate Gloucestershire..marraige record has father William Peart! She is living with a William and his family in 1861 but is listed as visitor!
William was a prisoner in 1851! see HO107; Piece: 1839; Folio: 669; Page: 47 Devizes Wilts so that would be why Ruth was with her grandparents..
1841 with parents, brother of John Peart..

[grisel]

Looks like Ruth married george Shipp in Bristol in 1880, they can be found on 1881 census RG11; Piece: 2512; Folio: 34; Page: 9 Yate Gloucestershire..marraige record has father William Peart! She is living with a William and his family in 1861 but is listed as visitor!
William was a prisoner in 1851! see HO107; Piece: 1839; Folio: 669; Page: 47 Devizes Wilts so that would be why Ruth was with her grandparents..
1841 with parents, brother of John Peart..

Good find!

[valg]

Will leave ladykiss with this info and move on until such time as some certificates can be provided to substantuate...interesting family..cheers val

[Ladkyis]

1852 marriage registration to Mary Ann Richards in March qrt at Newport

I am going through the information from all you lovely people and following up the leads in order to have all the potential stuff ready for my Cuz when we visit on Sunday.
My problem is that I cannot find the marriage referred to here on FMP....... Oooh you were looking on FreeBMD weren't you?

~scurries off to find it on there~


ETA: found it now. I confess that when I am in FMP I tend not to go elsewher to look. I should start with freeBMD shouldn't I?

[Ladkyis]

Still not the 1891 but this does look like your William.
William Toms,
Birth Place: Sopworth, Wilts
Residence: Cwmbran, Mon.
Death Date: 16 May 1916
Death Location: Home

I received the death certificate today - I applied for it with the marriage certificate but that will probably arrive tomorrow or next week. ANYhooooo, the death certificate proves that this is the correct William Toms.
He died in the temporary Military Hospital Woolaston House. Now this is very interesting because that was the workhouse and I didn't know that it had been a temporary military hospital. It makes sense though, what with Newport being a main seaport the ships with wounded could come there easier that trying to go up the east coast - being as we were at war with Germany.
His occupation is Rifleman, 1st Mon Regiment (colliery Timberman). Does this mean that he was still working in the colliery while being a Rifleman or is this just to show that he was working as a Timberman before he was a Rifleman?
Cause of death 1) Carcinoma of the intestine 2) Cancerous Peritonitis. this is fascinating because his Grandson also died of bowel cancer and his great grandson caught it in time and is now clear. It does emphasis how important it is for family members to be checked though doesn't it? there are several boys descended from him and I wonder if they have been checked - do I nag them?
Now I want the marriage certificate to give me his father!

[Ladkyis]

The marriage certificate confirms that Edwin Toms is the father of WilliamToms and William gives his age as 27 so that makes him born in 1866

Now to try and unravel all the stuff in the census and work out if his birth was registered or not. The Register Office has moved now so I can no longer walk to it. I'll have to wait until Mr M can take me and then pop in and see if they can be bothered to look.