1911 Census Reference Numbers

[LittleSpark]

As I haven't got access to census I've been looking at 1911 on Ancestry as it's free at the moment.

Silly question I know BUT where are the reference numbers???

When other members post any 1911 details they always quote the refenece numbers but for the life of me I can't see them.......

Sheila

[olliecat]

On Ancestry, when you first open a census record to view you normally see a transcription, with a 'View Image' link in the corner. Well, scroll down and just below the 'Save This Record' box you will see the Source Citation: census reference.

Alternatively, if you are viewing the census image, the 'Source Citation' is in the pop-out side bar. Example...

Source Citation
Class: RG14; Piece: 3900; Schedule Number: 125

Edit: On this site, using a census reference that you have been quoted to find a specific record is a whole different ball game. You haven't asked about that - thank goodness.
Note to self: make a hasty exit in case Sheila asks about that.

[LittleSpark]

Thanks Olliecat - I had noticed the Source Citation references but other members use references starting RN....... which is what I think you mean in your 'Edit' - yep I'll leave that for now.....lol

Sheila

[olliecat]

I had noticed the Source Citation references but other members use references starting RN.

RN? Perhaps you meant RG?

Here are some examples of census references, bearing in mind that people write them in slightly different ways....

Example of a full 1911 census reference

Class: RG14PN3900 RG78PN149 RD47 SD1 ED16 SN125

Example of a shortened 1911 census reference

If you compare the following shortened reference to the full reference above, you'll see that only the Piece and Schedule Number are included. These two numbers are all that is needed for a 1911 census reference.

Class: RG14; Piece: 3900; Schedule Number: 125

OR written differently

RG14/3900 SN125

Example of a 1901 census reference

For an 1851 to 1901 census reference, you need a Piece number, Folio number and Page number.

Class: RG13; Piece: 5019; Folio: 37; Page: 10

OR written differently

RG13/5019 f.37 p.10

The 1841 census requires a book number as well. If you are interested, there is a short explanation of census refs and the meaning of the different parts here.

which is what I think you mean in your 'Edit'

No, I meant that if I gave you a specific census reference - well how would you use that census reference on Ancestry? It's not obvious, but you have to go to Old Search in order to use a census reference to locate a specific census record. I was going off-topic mentioning this and should have kept my mouth zipped up - so please ignore the edit part - unless you really want ot know.

[Peter Goodey]

Example of a full 1911 census reference

Must take issue with that. That looks like the dog's dinner that appears on FMP.

Best to stick to the method recommended by the National Archives see http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/r...-documents.htm

Abbreviating the repository details a little, we end up with something like The National Archives; RG14/3900 SN125

This meets the requirements of this site whereby the name of the institution should be acknowledged.

[Guy Etchells]

Must take issue with that. That looks like the dog's dinner that appears on FMP.

Best to stick to the method recommended by the National Archives see http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/r...-documents.htm

Abbreviating the repository details a little, we end up with something like The National Archives; RG14/3900 SN125

This meets the requirements of this site whereby the name of the institution should be acknowledged.

Perhaps but it is bad sourcing as the source of an online image is the website holding the image not the National Archives which holds the census schedules.
This is even more important if one worked from a transcript rather than an image as there could be a mistake in the transcript
Cheers
Guy

[olliecat]

Example of a full 1911 census reference

Class: RG14PN3900 RG78PN149 RD47 SD1 ED16 SN125

Must take issue with that. That looks like the dog's dinner that appears on FMP.

Regardless of whether this is a dogs dinner or not, this style of 1911 reference is one that many may stumble across, either on FMP or quoted elsewhere. Best point it out and provide an example. An abbreviated example was also given.

I imagine that FMP decided to include the RG78, RD, SD and ED numbers as part of their referencing of the household schedules because these numbers provide the link between the household schedules and the enumerator summary books.

[Mutley]

I would like to join this thread, though I've not got a clue what to advise but I want it to show up on my
'forum subscribed threads' so I can follow the advice given. I think it is important for members to know the correct reference to give.

I always quote:
1911: RG14, (PN) Piece Number xxxxx, (SN) Schedule Number xxx, (records held by TNA, Crown copyright)

What I do not say is the site where I found the information, do I need to?

[Pam Downes]

I would like to join this thread, though I've not got a clue what to advise but I want it to show up on my
'forum subscribed threads' so I can follow the advice given. I think it is important for members to know the correct reference to give.

I always quote:
1911: RG14, (PN) Piece Number xxxxx, (SN) Schedule Number xxx, (records held by TNA, Crown copyright)

What I do not say is the site where I found the information, do I need to?

Not on here you don't. (Especially if you found it on FMP. :bigrin: )
Having subs to both Ancestry and FMP, when giving details on BG I do say if the name is transcribed differently on the two sites.

Family Historian (software program) has a mailing list and usually twice a year there's a big discussion about what a source is and how it should be recorded. e.g. should a census entry be recorded as held at TNA, viewed on Ancestry website at local library on 22 May 2011 at 11am, etc etc.
Perhaps to be absolutely correct you should be so specific, but I hold that if you see the 'original' image then the source is simply (for an English census entry for example) TNA, followed by the census reference. If you only see a transcription then, yes, in addition to any reference numbers you do need to record from where you obtained it because we all know that transcription = possible error.

The important thing every time is to ensure that other people - be they on the forum, cousins, or your heirs - can find the record easily.
After initially spouting the long-winded reference number for 1911, I now do the same as Mutley, with RG14 PN (xxxx) SN (xxx), but I would understand RG14/(xxxx) SN(xxx)

Pam

[LittleSpark]

Many thanks to all your replies - I think I've got it now from all your explanations
Yes I did mean RG and not RN!

Sheila