Robert Hunter 1866 m. Elizabeth Reed 1868

[drmike789]

What a brickwall this has been!

I cannot find any record of Robert Hunter's 1866 marriage to Elizabeth Reed 1868. These are my great grandparents. All their family are from Newcastle Upon Tyne. I have searched all Durham and Northumberland indexes from 1885-1896. Not found them on Durham Records Online either. An LDS member (on the original IGI) has their marriage "abt 1893" - the member is correct about many other details.

RH died in 1904. ER remarried in 1911 to William Maxwell Dickinson. Their marriage certificate shows her maiden name as Reed. I have RH's medical records from when he was admitted to hospital in 1903 - ER states married for 9 (possibly 7) years - 1894 (poss 1896).

Their first son Matthew is recorded in one census as born in 1887, although I strongly suspect this is actually RH's youngest brother. If so, their first (recorded) child was born in 1895. However, there might have been an earlier child - the 1911 census shows 6 children born alive, four living. I can account for six, but that would include Matthew.

Any help much appreciated.

Kind regards, Mike

[drmike789]

BTW I also cannot find Matthew Hunter's 1887 index to clear up who his parents are - whether it's RH and ER, or Thomas Hunter 1840 and Euphemia Whitfield 1841.

[Mutley]

There are several Robert and Elizabeths.
Please could you confirm this is the family you are searching for?

1901 at Byker, Newcastle upon Tyne
RG13/4790, Folio 145, Page 13
(records held by TNA, Crown copyright)

Robert Hunter age 34, Elizabeth Hunter age 32, Robert M Hunter age 6, Matthew Hunter age 14, Thomas Hunter age 3 and Margaret Hunter at 8 Months.

[Mutley]

I think the above must be your family because
1891 RG12/4210, Folio 97, Page 37, (records held by TNA, Crown copyright)
Robert abt 1867,
Elizabeth abt 1872,
Catherine abt 1878 ,
Richard Hunter abt 1876,
James Hunter abt 1882,
Isaac Hunter abt 1883,
Matthew Hunter abt 1887,
All born Newcastle Upon Tyne, all sons and daughters of Thomas (1841) and Euphemia (1842) Hunter.

It does seem that Matthew could be Robert's brother. Robert was a waterman, I suppose that could put their marriage anywhere but I am struggling to find one.

P.S. I know you have this information but it may help others searching for you to have it listed out.

[drmike789]

Yes, that's the family. This is my second thread on BritGen and I wasn't sure how much info to put at this point.

1901 Class: RG13; Piece: 4790; Folio: 145; Page: 13.
Robert Hunter 34
Elizabeth Hunter 32
Robert M Hunter 6
Matthew Hunter 14
Thomas Hunter 3
Margaret Hunter 8 Mo

1891 Class: RG12; Piece: 4210; Folio: 97; Page: 37.
Thomas Hunter 50
Euphemia Hunter 49
Robert Hunter 24
Elizabeth Hunter 19
Catherine Hunter 13
Richard Hunter 15
James Hunter 9
Isaac Hunter 8
Matthew Hunter 4

1881 Class: RG11; Piece: 5065; Folio: 94; Page: 15.
Thomas Hunter 42
Euphemia Hunter 41
Jane Ann Hunter 18
Euphemia Hunter 16
Robert Hunter 14
Thomas Hunter 12
Margaret Hunter 10
Elizabeth Hunter 8
Richard Hunter 6
Catherine Hunter 3

1871 Class: RG10; Piece: 5103; Folio: 63; Page: 27.
Thos Hunter 30
Euphemia Hunter 30
Jane Ann Hunter 8
Euphemia Hunter 6
Robt Hunter 4
Thos Hunter 2
Margret Hunter 4 Months

[Mutley]

Well I've tried to find a marriage but unfortunately cannot.
The 1911 census on FMP has the children wrongly transcribed with their stepfather's surname. Also Robert as Thomas.
(I've reported the errors)
1911: RG14, (PN) Piece Number 30622, (SN) Schedule Number 225, (records held by TNA, Crown copyright)
It says they have been married for under 1 year which is correct. Elizabeth has then filled in that she had 6 children 4 still living.
Possibly Margaret has died. There is a Margaret Jane death in Sept 1904 age 4. I've tried to find another one but Hunter is a very common name in Newcastle upon Tyne. Quite a few Hunter children died between 1901 and 1911.
There are also loads of births between 1891 and 1904. Though there is one for Catherine in Dec 1903.

Do you have any of the children's birth certificates? I keep wondering if Elizabeth may have had a short marriage before Robert.

[drmike789]

Hi, Mutley.

Thanks for the info about the 1911 census - I've only looked on A.com, not FMP. And thanks for the time you have taken to look into this.

I have birth certificates for Thomas, Catherine, George, and Margaret Jane. All record mother as Elizabeth Hunter formerly Reed.

I've not been able to find birth indexes for Matthew or Robert.

Thomas died in 1961, Catherine in 1981. So Margaret does look the most likely to have died between censuses. They might have had another child not picked up in the censuses.

I did searches for Robert Hunter with Elizabeths, looking for possible transcription erros - Elizabeth Keiff and Elizabeth Vetch I have ruled out. I did the same too for Elizabeth reed and Roberts - no likely candidates though.

So, does that mean their marriage is totally wrongly transcribed, or were they not married?

Regards, Mike

[Mutley]

At the moment it is looking as if they did not marry or there is a very weird transcription out there!
There was a Dec 1887 registration of an Elizabeth Reed with the man missing but I doubt it is Robert as we have him in 1891 with parents.

To try and work out if she had been married before I wrote down all the names of the husbands for marriages of an Elizabeth Reed between 1885 and 1901. I then checked marriages of a Robert Hunter to an Elizabeth and cross referenced the surnames.
The only one I found was a Thomas Wilson marriage in Sept 1885 then in March 1891 a Robert Hunter marries an Elizabeth Wilson.

There are 4 deaths for a Thomas Wilson of about the right age between 1885 and 1891.
I was then going to look for a birth of a Matthew and Robert Wilson child until I realised that I had only looked at Newcastle upon Tyne and if my theory might be possible then I needed to look a lot wider. ~~sigh~~ I gave up then.

I also discounted Keiff and Vetch. Sorry, I don't know where to go from here, other than trying to get hold of the Newcastle upon Tyne parish records. I will however, keep an eye open. Good Luck.

[drmike789]

Thanks, Mutley. As a novice, I am very impressed. The Wilson one I will follow up, but I could not find the index on FMP or A.C. Could you point me to it?

[Mutley]

To do the 'exercise' I used FreeBMD. (http://www.freebmd.org.uk)
I clicked the Marriages Box
I clicked the district as Newcastle upon Tyne
I entered Reed in the Surname box and Elizabeth in the First Name Box.
(My search period was 1885 to 1901)

The information that was returned for this first entry had 4 people in Sept 1885.

REED Elizabeth, Newcastle T. 10b/116
Robson Jane. Newcastle T. 10b/116 click to view Postem available
Wheatley Robert. Newcastle T. 10b/116 click to view Postem available
WILSON Thomas, Newcastle T. 10b/116

Beside Jane Robson and Robert Wheatly was a little envelope and when you clicked on it someone has posted the details of the marriage of this couple (how lucky for those descendants!)
That means that Elizabeth Reed and Thomas Wilson's marriage was registered in the quarter of Sept 1885 in Newcastle upon Tyne and to order the certificate the reference is 10b/116.

In my search period there are another dozen or so returns of marriages for an Elizabeth Reed and I wrote down the male names.
I then did the search again but this time I entered Robert Hunter to an Elizabeth.

The only corresponding name was a registration of a marriage in Dec 1891, 10b/249 for these couples.
Hunter Robert
Oliver Thomas
Robson Margaret Jane
Turnbull Agnes
Wilson Elizabeth

The next step is to match the couples in the census and this was when I ran out of time and realised what a job I had set myself to do, as well as repeating the process in the surrounding districts.
I have done it before, for my own family, but it is quite time consuming.

I class it as a 'Winter Job'. When the sky is grey and the telly is dismal I go to FreeBMD and play.
P.S. And.... Durham Records Online helps to cross some of the entries of the list.