Mary Greenwood married 1878

[pennydog]

Do you think this could be Mary's death reg. Mary Greenwood - Mar qtr 1908 Camberwell 1d 480 age 73 ?

[Mutley]

I've trawled through the 1881 looking at all sorts of combinations, even just entering 'Mary the needle woman born abt 1830'.
Loads of them
I've found a few possible entries but there is always something that puts me off.
Sorry.

[malcolm99]

Do you think this could be Mary's death reg. Mary Greenwood - Mar qtr 1908 Camberwell 1d 480 age 73 ?

Ooooh - that looks awfully like the workhouse Mary doesn't it. Excellent find & one to be pursued.Many thanks pennydog.

[malcolm99]

I've trawled through the 1881 looking at all sorts of combinations, even just entering 'Mary the needle woman born abt 1830'.
Loads of them
I've found a few possible entries but there is always something that puts me off.
Sorry. :sad;

Thanks again for your trawling Mutley. If I told you it took me 39 years to find out that Mary was my James Lewis's daughter from his first marriage then you can imagine my frustration at not finding her later life - on the other hand I've learned to have patience with the chase!

[Mutley]

Thanks again for your trawling Mutley. If I told you it took me 39 years to find out that Mary was my James Lewis's daughter from his first marriage then you can imagine my frustration at not finding her later life - on the other hand I've learned to have patience with the chase!

I suspect the haystack is pretty ragged by now!
However, looks like pennydog may have found something. Well done

[malcolm99]

I suspect the haystack is pretty ragged by now!

It's interesting isn't it. We all have various numbers of balls up in the air at any one time and we pursue them. But there is always some really difficult problem nagging at you in the background.

Mary Greenwood is one of those for me - but what posting does do is to spur you on to really get to grips with the problem: and so at the moment I'm going through all appropriate post 1877 deaths and I'll probably invest some money (don't tell Terrysfamily!) in cracking the problem at last - starting with pennydog's Camberwell suggestion.

Thank you both for spurring me on - I'll let you know when (if?) I have any luck.

[pennydog]

Finger's crossed it is the right one Malcolm - do let us know.

[pennydog]

Malcolm I have mulled this overnight and although nothing really ties up thought I would throw it into the mix (apologies if you have already been down this path).

On the workhouse entry for Mary she is listed as married and there is a John Greenwood - lab - also married in the workhouse.
I cannot see a creditable death for him prior to 1911.
There is a death for John Greenwood June qtr 1914 age 86 Camberwell 1d 720 (which kind of fits with the 1901 y.o.b.).
On the 1911 census RG14 PN1856 SN1 there is a John Greenwood, still in the workhouse b1833/age 78 born Southwark which does not fit seemlessly to the 1901 entry on either age or p.o.b. the thing that has nagged at me was the occupation given - Engine fitter railway company.
Your John Greenwood, is listed as a labourer on his marriage cert.
If he was a labourer on the railway, perhaps he was working outside of London, which is the reason we cannot find them in 1881 and 1891.

This is pure speculation on my part and am quite happy for you to junk it.

[malcolm99]

Pennydog – I think you’ve done it again! I’ve been following up your 1914 John Greenwood and it’s looking rather promising – it’ll all need double-checking but so far he looks like this:

1829/1837: John son of Samuel & Catherine Greenwood. Baptised St Saviour, Southwark 30 June 1837 but born 4 April 1829. Samuel is an Engineer.

1851: John (a labourer) marries Mary Ann Jenkins at St Mary’s Newington and they are in the 1851 Census in Gravel Lane, Southwark, HO107 Piece 1558 fol. 517 p. 78. When he married in January he was a labourer but in the census he describes himself as ‘Laborer/Engineers’ (+ father Samuel, an engineer).

1861: I’m not sure if it is my John in the Census at RG9 Piece 181 fol. 94 p. 14 (this John has remarried – to Sarah from Bristol) but an interesting thing is that Mary’s family lived in and around the Liberty of the Rolls from at least 1840 until the 1860s.

No sighting in the 1871 Census but the 1878 marriage gives his father as Samuel which is a good connection. A problem here is that in the register John is described as a bachelor, but that could just be the normal sort of mistake that sometimes happens.

The next time he turns up is the 1901 census when it looks like it could be him in the Newington Workhouse, RG13 Piece 381 fol. 115 p. 16 – and he’s still married. From there we go to your 1911 census ref and the 1914 death. 1911 may be a coincidence but the pobs for 1901 (Walworth) & 1911 (Southwark) fit nicely.

I’ll look into this a bit more when I find out more about Mary’s death in 1908 - there may be something relevant on the certificate.

Meanwhile many thanks once again for spurring me on with this one.

[malcolm99]

Just to say that I obtained the Death Certificates for both Mary & John Greenwood and both of them turned out to be the ones I wanted. After a lot of ploughing through Southwark Workhouse records and piecing together John’s life from censuses and church records I’ve managed to find out as much as I can reasonably ever know about them both.

So special thanks to Pennydog for helping me with this and to Mutley for helping with the chase – it proves once again that brickwalls are just sitting there waiting to be demolished!