Occurence of Death Not Registered

[DocDAve]

I have a burial record of John Downes.

He was buried at Bermondsey ( ref.CD published) 11 July 1847 having died 2 July

This gives his address Gravel Lane, Southwark and age 19 and he may be a key member of my tree.

There is no GRO Death Cert for him and I would welcome any fedback from others who have found a similar death not registered, and any comments on why and how frequent this is . Thankyou

[Jan1954]

Until 1874, when that Births and Deaths Registration Act kicked in making registration compulsory, there were a number of birth registrations missing as there had been no penalty for not doing so.

I am sure that I will be corrected if I am wrong, but I thought that a burial could not take place unless there was a death certificate. This was a stipulation of the Births and Deaths Registration Act of 1836. It may well be that the odd one slipped through the net, though.

Meanwhile, have you ruled out the following death registration in Clerkenwell? John DOWNES, September quarter 1847 (which would fit with a burial in the July), volume 3, page 80. Clerkenwell is just across the river from Southwark and the death would have been registered where he died, rather than where he lived. Maybe he worked on the other side of the river? Does the burial record give any clues as to his occupation?

Perhaps order the certificate from the GRO, stipulating that the chap's age/address match that on the burial record? There should be no charge if it does not match.

[olliecat]

Meanwhile, have you ruled out the following death registration in Clerkenwell? John DOWNES, September quarter 1847

Unfortunately, there is this...

Burial of John Downes on 27 Jul 1847 at Clerkenwell St James. Age 1.

Still worth checking this death certificate as it won't cost anything provided you specify an approximate age and it turns out not to match.

I would concur with Jan in that a number of deaths probably slipped through the net in the early years of civil registration. I would also add that sometimes a death registration is delayed if it has been dealt with by a coroner and registration could be quite some time after the actual death.

I've also come across instances where it has gone through a coroner's office but there doesn't appear a death registration at all (even a delayed one) - as if the coroner forgot.

[sueannbowen]

Hmmm I thought that the death would not necessarily have to be registered in the same place as the the person lived (and/or was buried). My aunt died in Rye, I registered her death in Ramsgate and she was buried in Hastings. It depends upon who registered the death, but I agree with Jan - not sure you could bury without a certificate. Soi, the District of Registration might be a blind.

[Mutley]

Have you any idea from your family research, what was his occupation and cause of death might have been?

Probably a silly question. that's why you want his certificate ....

At 19 years old it would have been an accident or illness.
If an accident, would local newspapers help?

[lizone]

I struggled to find the death of a Benjamin Thornton in the late 1800s in Rastrick, Yorkshire, as none of the GRO certificates looked 'right' in terms of age and location. Through local newspaper notices I was able to cross reference all the possible certificates to other Benjamins. It was only by going through a local newspaper week by week that I found the 'right' Benjamin - luckily I had some evidence of when he was died (from a marriage certificate) otherwise I would have been condemned to searching the full ten years between census!

Whilst I can't state categorically that the certificate doesn't exist, I still haven't found it and suspect it has been filed incorrectly.

Liz

[Jane Elderfield]

1. Is it possible that your man was found dead, and not identified until later? The death would then be registered as "Male UNKNOWN".

2. Have you tried the John DOWNES registered in Greenwich district, 5 144, Sept. quarter 1847 ?

--Jane E

[Coromandel]

The absence of a death from the GRO index doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't registered.

The death may have been registered locally, but the information failed to appear in the GRO index or was mis-indexed. Local registrars might have failed to copy an entry, or a batch might have got lost in the post, or the clerks in London might have mis-read the entry and indexed it wrongly.

To add to the problems, some of the original handwritten volumes of the GRO index were later typed up. Unfortunately further errors were introduced during this process. From the scanned image of the GRO index for deaths in the September quarter of 1847, this is clearly one of the typed volumes.

You could try asking the relevant local registrar if they can find a registration. However, as has been pointed out already, you can't be sure John was buried in the area where he'd died.

[DocDAve]

John Downes of Gravel Lane Southwark : I know he was catholic as he was buried in Holy Trinity RC Church grave yard.

I suspect ( but hope not for other reasons) that he is the John Downes of the family in Noah's Ark Alley, St Saviour, shown with Elizabeth Downes as head. She was buried in 1842 in the same graveyard, as was her husband Thomas Downes in 1840 both of Ireland. That John was age 13 and born in the area so the age fits exactly.

I am inclined to approach the local registrar to find a certificate that hasn't made it to the GRO.

There are two Clerkenwell deaths for John Downes in 1847, plus the Greenwich one but I'll try the local Registrar first.