Brookes-Witherly Alias?

[janbooth]

More information on the PETRE family from Biglands of Henbury:

In the Churchyard on Tombs

Arms; two Garbs, in base a Lamb, a chief chequy; - impaling, Gules, on a bend or between two Escallops Argent, a Cornish Chough proper between as many Cinquefoils Azure, on a Chief of the second, a Rose between two Fleurs de Lys of the first, for PETRE.

"Memorie Viri fui chariffimi GEORGIE PETRE, quondam de Charlton, Generofi. ELEONORA Uxor ejus moeftiffima condidit hunc tumulum. Vixit annos 72. Mortem obiit Febr. 23, 1630, Extitit enim Pater 22 liberorum qu..... duo ..er vivos num rant.. reliquium cum P.... placide dormiunt, cenno Expectantes futuram corporis Resurrectonem vitam aeternam"

Here lyeth the body of George PETRE, of Charlton, Gent. who departed this life the 20th day of May 1698, aged 8. years

Also the body of Elizabeth his wife who died 10 July 1705, aged 86

Here also lyeth the body of ELIZABETH, wife of Samuel ROACH, of the Parish of Westbury on Trym, Merchant, who departed this life 6 Nov 1710, aged 32 years

H.S.E. GEORGIUS PETRE, de Charlton, obiit 27 Aug 1728, aetatis fuae 83

I am assuming that Elizabeth ROACH could have been Elizabeth PETRE as all the inscriptions seem to be on the same tomb. The next tomb appears to be that of a William Gwin VAUGHAN son of William Gwin VAUGHAN & Martha his wife, sole daughter and heir of Samuel ROACH of Shirehampton. He died 21 August 1737, aged 5 months and 20 days and also on the same tomb is the inscription of Martha VAUGHAN who departed this life 3 Feb 1750, aged 39 years. The next tomb is that of Thomas WITHERLEY and wife Martha, so perhaps all the PETRE family tombs are close together?

Hope your Latin is more advanced than my schoolgirl variety - very big grin!! All the dots are replacing missing letters or numbers, so the George PETRE who died in 1698 was eighty something, but the next numeral is missing.

So from all this, it looks as if the George PETRE who married Elizabeth is the likely father of your Martha WITHERLEY. Isn't Biglands a mine of information!!

Phillimore's Marriage Index shows the following marriage at Henbury:

10 May 1708 Mr Samuel ROACH of Abbots Leigh, Somerset & Mrs. Elizabeth PETRE of H(enbury) so my surmise was correct. There is also an addendum saying that the marriage of Eliza PETRE in 1690 should read Elizabeth PETRE. However, I can't find any other PETRE marriages in Phillimores or Phillimores Plus. Do you have the visitation of Gloucester 1623? Pages 123/4 show the origin of the PEETER family (they appear to have originated in Devon) but does not really help with your line as it seems to end with the 2nd George PEETER. The first George PEETER of Henbury married a Grace PILL daughter of John PILL of Exeter - I wonder if the Grace PETRE who married Devorex CASTELL is named after her? Unfortunately, the visitation of Gloucester 1682 does not contain any PEETER/PETRE entries!

The National Archives Documents Online website has the will of George PETRE, Gentleman of Henbury who died in 1632 which might be useful.

Hope this helps a bit further and let me know if you don't have the 1623 visitation and I will give you the earlier details for George's lineage.

Our posts crossed with one another, so am pleased you have come to the same conclusion!

Best wishes,

Janet

[lesleys]

Interesting that you have found a link with Exeter Jan.
The later Brooke family (Henry Francis abt1737-1800, wool merchant and his descendants) came from Exeter to Henbury, but according to the Ancestral file that we discussed a while backBrooke of Old Sodbury, Henry's father James was born at Henbury in 1703.
Henry's daughter, Isabella Frances, married Thomas, gt grandson of Richard & Hannah and I am convinced but have no proof that there must be a connection further back - especially as Richard mentioned Henbury in his will.
I dont want to hi'jack Mary's Witherly thread so if anyone has anything to add on the Brooke line please go to my old one, thanks.

[janbooth]

Another marriage in Phillimores MI at Henbury:

2 November 1629 Thomas CROOKER & Margaret BROOK als WITHERLIE

Just to confuse matters even more, Mary.

Janet

[Mary C]

All this information is great Jan. Many thanks. I now need to have a good look at it and will get back to you. I am actually researching this for a friend and am so pleased to find a 'respectable' line. On another branch his 3 x great grandmother had 2 'base born' sons both of whom were convicted of housebreaking with violence and sentenced to death but were actually transported to Australia. They seemed to become quite respectable and both married (probably bigamously as their wives in the UK were still alive. So quite a mixed bag.

Warm regards
Mary

[janbooth]

Glad to be of help, as always. It sounds an interesting family! Biglands can be really helpful when sorting out families. I just wish the parishes N-Z were available to peruse as well!

Look forward to hearing from you again

Janet

[Mary C]

Hi Jan - I've just written another message and lost it so have to start again!
I found the Gloucestershire Visitations 1623 and wonder why George's second wife Eleanor, and their children are not included. It lists his first wife Grace Pill and their children. Incidentally I cannot read the note under their son George. I had assumed he died and Eleanor had a later son George.

I have obtained the 1630 Will of George (of the two wives) but find it almost impossible to read, so not much help there.

I want to verify that he was the father of George 1617-1698 who was the father of Martha Petre. That is my 'missing link" In a previous message you gave me information from Biglands on the Tomb of George (1630). I am wondering why he was allowed to have Arms as on the Visitation it says No Arms tricked (whatever that means). Also, you also added the memorial of George Petre who died 1698 and I am wondering if they were in the same tomb. If so that would certainly confirm their relationship. I have discovered quite a lot of information on the Petre family from Devon and would dearly love to be sure that the George who died in 1698 was the son of George who died in 1630.

Regards
Mary

[janbooth]

Hi Mary,

I think the note on the Visitation indicates that George was M at Awre - still haven't the faintest what that means though. Looking at the ages of them when they died, the first George (assuming my translation of the latin is correct) was formerly of Charlton, gentleman, cherished? husband of Eleanor his wife who erected his burial monument (not totally sure about this last bit) and that he was aged 72 when he died in 1630, thus making a birthdate c1558. George who died in 1698 was aged 81 making his birthdate c1617 so the first George would have been in his 50's when his son was born and as Eleanor was his second wife that is feasible.

From the way that Biglands is laid out, it looks as if the memorial inscriptions for George who died 1630, George who died 1698, his wife Elizabeth, Elizabeth ROACH and George who died 1728 are all on the same tomb.

If you think I can help in any way with the will of George who died 1630, send me a copy and I will have a go at transcribing it - two heads may be better than one!!

Can't help with the term "no arms tricked" but I am sure someone on the Forum will be able to put us right.

Let me know if I can help with the will transcription.

Regards

Janet

[Mary C]

Hi Janet and once again thank you for your reply. I feel confident that George 1617-1698 was the son of George who died in 1630 which now allows me to follow the line back to Devon. The first wife of George was Grace Pill of Exeter and his parents were John Peter and Alice Hurst and I can go back another couple of generations from there which is really fantastic.

I will send you the 1630 Will and would be grateful for any input. I won't attach my 'transcription' as at this stage is has just a few words with many xxxx and ???? . I think I have your email address.

As always, I appreciate your help.

Best wishes
Mary