Lily Normandale

[kath]

I am helping a friend with her family but we have come to a full stop so any ideas as to where we go next would be really welcomed.

Lily Normandale was born in Scarborough N. Yorks in1893. In 1901 she is with her family in Sandside scarborough - father Fred aged 53 and mother Emily aged 51. No sign in 1911 census of Lily.

As far as the present family knows she went to Canada, we don't now which part, and could have had a child out of wedlock.

we have searched passenger lists on fmp, Ellis Island archive and also the searchable on-line archives in Canada, we have looked at bmds and tried a lot of alternative spellings.

Hopefully newer minds will come up with something.

Kath

[Coromandel]

Hello Kath

Here's a possible alternative explanation for what became of Lily.

A Lily Normandale married in the Scarbro' district in the third quarter of 1922 to William J. MILEHAM. (The marriage certificate should confirm her father's name and occupation and so tell you if this is your missing Lily.)

There is a possible child whose birth was registered in the same district in the first quarter of 1923, surname shown as MILCHAM in FreeBMD and mother's maiden name as Normandale. I won't give the child's name as she may still be alive. The image of the GRO index does show the surname as MILCHAM, but this could easily result from a mis-reading of MILEHAM in the creation of the GRO index.

From this query on another site, it sounds as if the child may have been brought up in a convent:

http://www.
justanswer.com/genealogy/5ngzk-mother-no-birth-certificate-knows-little.html

and the fact that the enquirer couldn't find her mother's birth certificate may be because the surname is recorded incorrectly in the GRO index.

As pointed out on the above site, there's a death registration for a Lily Mileham in the Goole district, third quarter of 1927, aged 35, which might explain what happened to the daughter.

Edit: FreeBMD has what looks like the marriage of the daughter in the Scarbro' district in 1949, this time with her surname recorded as MILEHAM.

[Coromandel]

It has just occurred to me that you may already know what happened to Lily later in life. Sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick!

FreeBMD has what looks like the marriage of the daughter in the Scarbro' district in 1949, this time with her surname recorded as MILEHAM.

but now I see that this doesn't correspond with the date of marriage given on the website mentioned in post #2 so my logic may have gone wrong somewhere.

[judyg]

Hi Kath

Do you have a copy of Lily's birth cert? Looking at the family through the various census I note that Fred and Emily had Tom in 1868 and then apparently no other children until Lily in 1892. Just wondered if she may have been the child of another family member and went off with them?? (one of my lot had the annoying habit of recording any children staying in the household in various census as 'son' or 'daughter' when they were stepchildren or grandchildren!!)

Cheers
Judyg

[Raffaele]

From FreeBMD

Births Sep 1915
Normandale Frederick Normandale Scarbro' 9d 707

This may fit with Family knowledge. An apparent illegitmate birth to a mother named Normandale

Buying this certificate might prove to be worthless as it might not be your Lily so perhaps a baptism can be found.
If not buying it might be necessary to begin to unravel the information you seek.
You can buy the certificate here with no premiums charged

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

Please bear in mind that given the AUP on the site preventing the naming of live persons means the name above is right on the edge restricting how much help can be given openly

[kath]

Thank you all for the suggestions. There was something I missed out in the rush to put pen to paper Lily was a twin with Sophia, my friends great grandmother, and it appears she was with other family members in 1901 sorry so that ex plains the gap in ages. Sophia was with her parents. As Normandale is a common name in Scarborough and descendants are still living here it seems odd that if Lily had stayed in the area no one knew. We will pursue the avenues you have opened up for us and see what happens.
Many thanks again I may even get back to my own brick walls

Kath

[judyg]

Hi Kath

Even with the new information on Lily having a twin sister Sophia, apart from there being a birth registration in the same year and quarter as Lily, things are still not gelling.

In the 1901 Census 8 year old Sophia is recorded as being the daughter of 30 year old Elizabeth Normandale a widow. Also on this census is 10 year old Elizabeth E, 6 year old Robert W and 2 year old Rhoda.

Jumping back to the 1891 Census we have 20 year old Robert Nomandale with 21 year old wife Elizabeth and 3 month old daughter Elizabeth.

There is the death recorded of a Robert William Normandale aged 30 in the January quarter of 1901.

Jumping forward again to the 1911 Census Elizabeth Normandale is a 38 year old widow, her household includes Sophia aged 18, Rhoda aged 14, Mac(?) aged 5, Ruby aged 3 and Phillis aged 2. All these are recorded as daughter or son. Elizabeth seems to have had some difficulty understanding the columns for marriage and children details. Under the marriage columns she has put married 20 years this has been crossed out. Under the column ‘Total children born alive’ she has entered 6 under the column “Children still living’ she has listed all the children’s names and ages again, plus the entry “1 away”. In the column ‘Children who have died” she has written ‘none’.

The maths still doesn’t add up because the 1 away adds up to 6 children as stated but does not include one of the children listed in the 1901 census. Robert William Junior is an inmate at the Morpeth Training School in Northumberland in the 1911 census.

Elizabeth is nowhere to be seen, however according to a tree on Ancestry - Elizabeth Elsie Normandale
daughter of Robert William and Elizabeth Normandale emigrated to Canada at the age of 15 in 1906 and married a Frederick William Café (no marriage date given).

I wonder if this is where the story of Canadian immigration came from?

Still doesn’t account for the Lily in the 1901 census. I’m afraid your friend is going to have get the birth certificate for Lily mentioned previously to establish once and for all who are stated as parents.

Cheers
Judyg

[kath]

Thanks Judyg

I have spoken to my friend and some of these things have rung bells. She has also had an opportunity to ask more questions. The Cafe connection is strong as a family member recalls a visit from the son of the couple about 1939/40 who was dressed in Canadian air force uniform. My friend remembers this man as "Lizzies" son so maybe this is where the confusion lies with "Lily" being in Canada.
She is going to the church records to find out about Lilys' parents.
Although this may clear up some aspects of this search it now emerges that the Fred and Emily Lily is with in 1901 are not her grandparents and if this Lily is not their daughter then so far we have not connected this Fred with Robert Normandale and Elizabeth Ollett who are our Lilys parents.

This family history stuff never ceases to amaze.

Thanks again all of you for your help

Regards Kath