CROFT/SCALES

[Pam Downes]

Pam, if the Kathleen, daughter of George and Lily Carterfield first noted above was 58 at her death in 1962, that would mean that she was born in 1904 approximately when the Lilian Ford at 55 Arliss Road in Ilford would have been about 20 years old. Oops. Janet is calling. I must go and watch Downtown Abbey. Will follow up.

I presume you mean Arliss Road in Battersea as per the 1901 census?

And if you're trying to make Lilian Ford the mother of Kathleen Carterfield who was born in 1904 FORGET IT
Right here. Right now. Because she ain't.

Kathleen's mother is the Lily Scales born in Hertford c1870, daughter of Thomas Scales and Eliza nee Poppleton.
As per my post #63

George William R Carterfield married Lily Scales, September quarter 1895, Hertford registration district, volume 3a page 873

Birth registration of Kathleen Carterfield was in June quarter 1903, Lambeth registration district volume 1d page 473.

You certainly need to join a site which has access to the census so you can look at all the entries I've found - and probably understand them more than just by reading them. Because of the various entries I've found for baptisms and marriages, Ancestry is probably better for you at the moment. You should be able to get a 14-day free trial, but make sure that you sign up to ancestry.co.uk. Make a note of cancellation procedures, and if you want to cancel at the end of your free trial do so in plenty of time. (Remember the time difference as well.)

Pam

[Brian Hobin]

You are correct. My thought was could Lilian Ford have been the mother of Lily Carterfield. Nuts. -----but why did my mother Kathleen write to her? The police response referred to her as an "aunt" of Kathleen's.
I wrote note in 1986. In a conversation with Kathleen, she said that she had an aunt, Mrs. Carter who lived in a suburb of London, that she corresponded with once in a while. Just before Kathleen came to Canada Kathleen said that she wrote to her. ---and that is all that I wrote at the time. I should have thought.
regards
Brian

[Pam Downes]

You are correct. My thought was could Lilian Ford have been the mother of Lily Carterfield. Nuts. -----but why did my mother Kathleen write to her? The police response referred to her as an "aunt" of Kathleen's.
I wrote note in 1986. In a conversation with Kathleen, she said that she had an aunt, Mrs. Carter who lived in a suburb of London, that she corresponded with once in a while. Just before Kathleen came to Canada Kathleen said that she wrote to her. ---and that is all that I wrote at the time. I should have thought.
regards
Brian

Brian, I think that at the moment you've got your mind locked in to one particular train of thought.
Empty your mind completely. Forget everything prior to post #63.

Now try and draw a family tree from the details I've given in post #63 onwards.
Does it make sense?
Can you see where Kathleen Croft can fit into it?
Can you also see where other facts (not conjectures) that you've posted fit into it as well?

Pam

[Brian Hobin]

A family tree you say?8-) I will and thank you. Forgetting everything prior to post 63 will be easy as I am not uncommonly, joyously baffled anyway. I now have purchased a needed ink cartridge so I can hold copies of these posts in my hand.
I received a last note from the Essex Records office-----
" I have searched the indexes to marriage certificates 1837-1915 and there is no marriage for a Frederick Croft and Sarah Scales anywhere in England and Wales.

They may have married in Scotland or elsewhere abroad, particularly if he was a soldier. Certificates for marriages conducted abroad are not so easily searchable on the internet but you could ask the General Register Office to search for you, from www.direct.gov.uk/gro . Alternatively they may not have actually got married at all.

I’ve sent you two things I’ve found on Ancestry - Kathleen’s baptism record which does not show a father and a medal award record for the Boer War for a Frederick Croft who was killed in action but the dates don’t quite work. The baptism is in Battersea where Kathleen was brought up by the Johnson family. I noted a Sarah Croft, servant in Battersea which I think is a good possibility. If you want to follow up the Battersea connection it might be worthwhile consulting the London Metropolitan Archives as they hold records of Wandsworth Board of Guardians who administered poor relief in Battersea. Some records are searchable on Ancestry but it is a bit cumbersome to use. You can email LMA at ask.lma@cityoflondon.gov.uk

If Frederick was a commercial traveller there is no way of finding out which firm he worked for. Ilford is on a suburban railway line into London and built up as a suburb for commuters into London, so he could have worked for a firm in London or a local firm.

This sort of case is particularly difficult to trace as there is little reliable information to work with. You will find that you have to go down a number of dead ends (and in all likelihood pay for the privilege!) before you can establish the truth. "

[Findem]

Hi,

Excuse me for sticking my nose in this topic but I'm wondering if there's another explanation in addition to those outlined by the ERO for a marriage not being in the Index, is it possible for a marriage to take place but be omitted for whatever reason from the Index? Just a thought!

Having read this topic I'm so grateful I'm not following that line!

Regards.

[Brian Hobin]

I have wondered that myself for years.
Regards
brian

[Pam Downes]

Hi,

Excuse me for sticking my nose in this topic but I'm wondering if there's another explanation in addition to those outlined by the ERO for a marriage not being in the Index, is it possible for a marriage to take place but be omitted for whatever reason from the Index? Just a thought!

Having read this topic I'm so grateful I'm not following that line!

Regards.

Findem, with a thought like, you are extremely welcome to stick your nose in any time.
And the answer to your question is yes, yes, and yes.

Google Mike Whitfield Foster, and click on the first result. Scroll to the bottom of the page, and click on the 'Comedy of errors' links.
The following site refers briefly to indexing at the GR, Mike's book and some of the errors found. http://www.
lfhhs.org.uk/help/factsh/lbmd.htm
(Slightly off-topic, but the the indexing at the GRO hasn't improved. Auntie and uncle married in the 1950s, and the GRO Index has auntie recorded in the correct registration district and uncle in a district on the other side of the country!)

Making such a suggestion doesn't exactly help Brian, though!

Pam

[Brian Hobin]

It supports my theory of a conspiracy though. 8-)

[Brian Hobin]

I received these 2 pages. They 1) note the death of F. Croft.
2) Baptismal record of Kathleen
I had hoped to copy and paste but that doesn't work for some reason.

[Pam Downes]

Kathleen Croft was baptised on 24 July 1904 at St Bartholomew, Battersea.
Her mother was named as Sarah Croft (Ancestry's index which says Sarah Harriet Croft is wrong); no father's name.

The address given is 55 Arliss Road. The same address she was living at in 1901, when she was a nurse child in the home of William and Mary Johnson. Is it possible that William and Mary took Kathleen to be baptised but her father's name was omitted simply because they didn't know it?

Brian - if you can give a few more details about the death of F Croft (date, section of the website, etc) those of us with Ancestry will be able to look it up for ourselves.
And you can't copy-and-paste images to BG. You have utilise something like Photobucket.
There is a 'how-to' instruction somewhere on BG. I'll see if I can find it and it to this post.

http://www.british-genealogy.com/for...se-Photobucket

Pam