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  1. #21
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    The Newcastle Griffins are in the 1891 Census, still living in Newcastle under Lyme:

    RG12 Piece 2149 fol. 125 p. 15 & 16

    Address: 3/2 Lower Street, Newcastle under Lyme

    John Griffin, Head, single, age 29, Iron worker labourer, born Newcastle, Staffordshire
    Thomas Griffin, Brother, single, age 26, Iron worker labourer, born Newcastle, Staffordshire
    Bridget Griffin, sister, single, age 23, silk worker-winder, born Newcastle, Staffordshire

    ...next door at 34 Lower Street, Newcastle under Lyme are>

    John Griffin, Head, married, age 54, Iron worker labourer & Lodging House Keeper, born Ireland
    Bridget Griffin, wife, married, age 50, [Lodging House Keeper?], born Ireland
    Patrick Griffin, son, single, age 17, Iron worker labourer, born Newcastle, Staffordshire
    Ellen Griffin, daughter, single, age 12, scholar, born Newcastle, Staffordshire
    PLUS 12 Lodgers.

    Now this is weird. We’ve lost the John Griffin who in 1881 was 14 and should now be 24 and he’s been replaced by a 29 year old John.
    Interestingly this would make him 39 in the 1901 census – which is the age given by John Griffin in the 1901 Hastings census – and we know that there is a John Griffin born in Newcastle, March Q, 1862 (see #11).

    This all fits in rather well except who is the John Griffin in the 1891 Hastings census? I fear we’ll need certificates soon but I’ll dig around and see if there’s an explanation for the Shoreham connection (wouldn't it be interesting if they turned out to be the same John!! - stranger things have been found on census returns!).
    Last edited by malcolm99; 11-04-2012 at 3:04 PM. Reason: added spicy idle speculation at end
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  2. #22
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    Well I can’t find any male Griffins born in Steyning RD between 1855-1870 that might be John Griffin in the 1891 Census (Steyning is the Registration District for the Shoreham area).
    On a census return you never quite know if someone is telling porkies or really doesn’t know the information they’re asked or whether the enumerators have made an error.

    It might be worth buying a certificate now. Perhaps the first one to get ought to be Annie’s birth certificate as you’d probably want it anyway, being your grandmother, and it would confirm her place of birth, her father’s name and occupation and would confirm (hopefully) that her mother’s maiden name was Hemmings.
    malcolm99

  3. #23
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    Good morning...
    I do have a marriage certificate for John and Elizabeth Jane (Boxall Hemmings) from 1889 on which John states his age as 24.
    I have a birth certificate for Annie Elizabeth (born 1890)...born in Hastings...father John Griffin...mother Elizabeth Jane Boxall Hemmings.
    It seems that on every census Johns age is different...Military records indicate 1863..now I realize mistakes happen. I also have a copy of Johns birth registration in Newcastle under L..showing the birth year as 1862
    The whole "Shoreham" thing is confusing as well...as I followed up with record offices in East Sussex, West Sussex etc. but could find nothing

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    My next step with John was to try to locate baptism records which would perhaps give me another clue any clue in fact...nothing could be found at any of the C of E record holders in Newcastle..so then I thought I would try the RC church and alas all their records are archived in Birmingham...I was told that I could go there to search them myself but apart from that no way to check them..g

  5. #25
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    hello malcolm99...I am still trying to sort out John Griffin...still my biggest problem is where was he born...I finally found his naval record in the national archives and that record states Newmarket as a birthplace and his year of birth is 1863...I have seen so many variations on his birthplace..my gut feeling is still Newcastle (not newmarket) but not 100% sure....and on the naval record it gives his mothers name as being Elizabeth and his father is John and of course I already knew his wife was Elizabeth...so more confusion...as I was thinking his mother was Bridget (as one of the daughters who didnt survive was named Bridget)
    If he was born as he states in 1863 then in 1889 when he married he has his age as 24...that would make his birth year 1865.

    Any suggestions for me?
    Thanks for your help in advance
    glenda

  6. #26
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    This is abit long,sorry:

    1911
    RG14; Piece: 16414; Schedule Number: 225
    From # 19 + 21
    Same John Griffin 'single' , brother Thomas, sister Bridget now seemingly Mrs Murphy.
    ........
    Marriages Mar 1894
    Griffin Bridget Newcastle L. 6b 95
    Murphy John Newcastle L. 6b 95
    This rather puts that particular newcastle family out of the running.
    ........................
    Your John safely in Hastings from 1889 - 1911
    1911 census has his birthplace "Newcastle, Yorks?" & dtr Annie written in different pen & hand writing.
    Mr & Mrs transcribed as 'W'
    ...............
    I wonder if he was really sure where he was born/raised. Perhaps only the memory of the Newcastle /Newmarket name.

    There are Newmarkets in Ireland.Count Cork & County Clare. I did see a John from C.Cary(sic) 1881 but he was an A B on the 'Industry' .
    also on 1881 Census
    GRIFFIN, John b.1863 Ireland. (also Michael)at Aldershot, Hampshire 'Private'
    RG11 piece 1252 folio 95 page 21 (copywrite TNA)

    He would have mentioned this later perhaps if it was he?

    I tried copying the Johns found on 1881 for the approx. birth year with a view to finding same on later censuses, but ran out of time, & lost some in translations. So many people varied ages & areas.
    1871 was more difficult, with no really obvious John & Elizabeth for Parents.

    If he was fostered perhaps due to Parents death he may have assumed Fathers name was John or had a distant memory, or taken potluck.

    Were there witnesses on the marriage certificate? They may give a clue.
    Also several other Griffins marrying in the area at that time.

    It'd be so nice to find your John.

    1891 John b.1863 a gunner at Plympton St.Mary.
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    Wendy
    Count your Blessings, they'll all add up in the end.

  7. #27
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    Glenda,
    I'm the grandson of John Griffin, the younger brother of Annie and so also a great grandchild of John Griffin who you are asking information on. It's nice to make your acquaintance. I've also been trying to research the family but have suffered the same impasse as it you and other researchers regarding the place of birth of John Griffin Snr. I'm very new to this site and have just joined as a response to your enquiry and so need to familiarise myself with protocols etc but I'm happy to provide you with my email address and provide information either through that or through the 'thread'. It would be helpful to use the thread because people like Malcolm appear appear incredibly helpful and knowledgeable on family research. I think John Griffin is born in the area of Newcastle. I've looked at his naval records and it appears very clear that his parents names are given as John and Elizabeth [ie not John and Bridget]. Once again it's nice to make you acquaintance. Do keep in touch. John Griffin

  8. #28
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    Glenda, Mistake already. I meant to say I think he was born in the Newmarket area, not Newcastle. It looks like it might be a family trait in getting that wrong! John

  9. #29
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    Well Glenda, that's a turn up for the books! How wonderful to have a direct descendant in contact with you.

    I haven't been ignoring your recent request for further thoughts - just mulling it all over in my mind. I should have told you this before (I can be incredibly lazy sometimes!) but I'll get back to you sometime this coming week.

    BTW (as the young ones say) did you ever contact Joanne, your “Second Cousin Once Removed”?
    Last edited by malcolm99; 26-08-2012 at 10:55 PM. Reason: confessed to being lazy & impolite
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  10. #30
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    OMG....I am thrilled to meet you John....this is very much a surprise to me....I had received a message a few months ago from Gary Griffin...grgrandson of James Henry...Annies other brother...but then I guess you would already know that...he seems to have disappeared on me....
    Firstly yes yes yes please I will provide an email address could we keep in touch ...(altho I agree that Malcolm is extremely helpful as is Waitabit.
    I will be the first to admit I am not handy at finding my way around this site...but I try...and hope I dont annoy anyone.
    I agree with you on the birthplace of John...altho I tried various record offices Cambridge, Derbyshire, Suffolk, Warwickshire as well as East and West Sussex...and nothing....I did get a birth cert from Staffordshire for the John Griffin born there at Newcastle under Lyme in 1862/
    My reason for leaning towards the John and Bridget ones...was because John and Elizabeth who married in 1889 and then had Annie my grandmother...had 3 daughters who did not survive before John Henry and James Henry were born....one of these daughters was named Elizabeth Bridget and I thought...gosh that might be the clue I was looking for...as you and I both know they werent all that creative with names and tended to use the same names over and over.
    I just looked at the naval record last week and discovered the name of his mother Elizabeth which really shouldnt have surprised me...so I realized hey I am back to square one....
    Do you have any additional info? My father Sydney John Griffin was Annies son and Dad was sent to Canada at the age of 10 as a homeboy...we didnt have much family info...other than we knew that John Griffin...had died at sea in the channel...we did know that much ..my Dad died in 1996.
    Were you aware that you had Griffin cousins in Canada?
    Again...please lets keep in touch

    glenda
    Email: greegriffin AT yahoo DOT ca
    Last edited by Jan1954; 27-08-2012 at 6:32 AM. Reason: Email address disguised to try to foil the spammers

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