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  1. #11
    Seriously addicted to family history research. spison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by judyg View Post
    There are several entries for permission to marry for Susan Over. Groom Thomas Summers. This was granted in 1840. There is a marriage for Thomas Summers to Susan OWEN in 1840 at St. John’s Church Parramatta. Judyg
    Good find Judy! What with the possible misinterpretation of the handwriting and the permissions to marry, this may very well be her. The online NSW BDMs were transcribed by non English speaking transcribers and it's full of errors. I'll look at this marriage too. It can't be copied but I'll transcribe it. A permission to marry was usually about a fortnight prior to the marriage.
    Jane

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    So it seems Susan did have a happy ending, good.
    I had a look through a few of the trials at the Old Bailey in 1838. The sentencing seemed very inconsistant.
    The rule of thumb though, was no matter how minor the offence, you were sentenced to transportation for anything between 7 years and life.
    Hard luck if the judge had gout that day.
    Cheers
    Dave.

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    Seriously addicted to family history research. spison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Annis View Post
    So it seems Susan did have a happy ending, good. Dave.
    Possibly.
    I read both the records and leave it up to you to decide if they both refer to her. I know what I think.
    NOTE:The 'V' reels are actually transcriptions (in most cases) from the actual registers but were made many many years ago. Some of these original records no longer exist and the 'V' reel is now the only reference. Some registers were missed at the time of transcription. Both these records came from the St John's, Parramatta, register County of Cumberland, NSW, which may still exist and may possibly be located through the Mormons.
    V1840354 24B/1840 (I read Susan's surname as either OUEN, OVEN, OUER, OVER. The second letter was NOT a W and looked exactly the same as the 'v' in Governor.
    Thomas Summers of the Parish of St Andrews, Sydney and Susan OVER of this Parish married in this church by Banns with the consent of the Governor this twentieth day of November in the year 1840. By me John Throughton.
    Thomas Summers (Signed) and Susan (X) Over. Witnesses: John F. ??aff (or possibly 'ass') perhaps the first letter was 'S' or 'T' and the second 'l' or 'h' and Fredk Willet.
    Do you have the copy of the Permission to Marry posted by Judy (#10 above)?

    V18422418 26A/1842 (Whoever transcribed this one must have been in la la land. There is NO INDICATION ANYWHERE on the record of a father let alone anyone named William - not even in the entries above and below this record!)

    Isabella Over (very clearly written), born 18 April, 1842, baptised 24 April, 1842 by J. Troughton; mother: Susan Over, Female Factory Parramatta.

    At this point I have to say that female convicts are the pits to research as they adopted names left, right and centre. Why was she back in the factory in 1842?

    Let us know what you think and perhaps we'll have some wonderful ideas.

    Jane

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    Femail Factory. Sounds charming.
    So Susan could have been married and had a child whilst still serving her sentence. I wonder if her scars and pock marks came after she was convicted. I can imagine a 16 year old girl could well have been mis-treated and abused under these circumstances.
    I hope little 5 ft Susan lived a long and better life afterwards. If she remaind in Australia then maybe there are still relations of hers still living there.
    Cheers
    Dave.
    ps. The one thing that tickles me about this hobby of ours, the people we research would never in a million years have guessed that their names and their life would be remembered and recorded a couple of hundred years or so later.

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    Seriously addicted to family history research. spison's Avatar
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    David
    If you google Parramatta Female Factory you will learn heaps about life there as the building still exists in Parramatta and is now an historical precinct. Susan was probably worse off there than on the ship! Going back to the factory at this time is significant but the records for this period are sketchy. She was probably (but not necessarily) sent there straight from the ship for assignment but to be returned there was possibly punishment. (My ancestor was returned to the second level of the factory in 1843 as punishment and she doesn't appear in any of the official records of who was there that remain. I found the record in the Colonial Secretary's Correspondence.)

    I'll bet our ancestors would be amused that we considered them important enough to look but the first reaction for people like your Susan and my Mary would probably be relief that their descendants survived.

    Jane
    Jane

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    Thank you Spison.
    What a dreadfull place it must have been. To be transported, often for trivial offences and then to be subjected to such evil conditions no wonder a girl would pick up a hankerchief to marry, just to get out of there.
    Susan Over was no relation of mine or the work mate who I have reseached his ancestry for. She was just a servant who stole from her master, my mates 3rd great Grandfather, Warwick Bagley.
    Susan is now a little piece of history and I hope she went on to live a happier life.
    Cheers
    Dave.
    Ps. We have films about the "Wild West", how come we have nothing much on Wild Australia, other than "Ned Kelly". Parramatta Femail Factory and transportation is crying out for their stories to be told.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Annis View Post
    We have films about the "Wild West", how come we have nothing much on Wild Australia, other than "Ned Kelly". Parramatta Femail Factory and transportation is crying out for their stories to be told.
    What can I say to this? Australians are only really just coming to terms with our hidden history and heritage and we all have huge gaps for huge chunks of time in every place - including Sydney. We're struggling in Newcastle to retain what's left of our convict history as significant areas are being developed and destroyed. Parramatta Female Factory is struggling to stop development and 'fixing up' of parts of the buildings in the precinct. It's really a case of you don't know what you've got until it's gone!

    And this is nothing compared to the destruction of aboriginal history and culture. Every year Sydney holds a wonderful art exhibition called Sculptures by the Sea - a walk that starts at Bondi Beach and wanders along the coast to Tamarama Beach exhibiting dozens of modern installations and sculptures. Beside the walkway is a magnificent aboriginal carving of probably a shark. A tourist (with an accent and a cruise ship badge) was looking at it and I said it was hundreds of years old. (I might have been wrong as it was probably older.) His response: It can't be or it would be better protected! I was dumbfounded but he was right!
    Jane

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