John CARLYON Blacksmith of the Meneage

[Graham L]

According to a family bible my gg grandfather John CARLYON was born in May 28th 1837. His baptism is in the IGI as 25 June 1837 (as John CARLION). He was born in Mawgan in Meneage. His parents were Edward CARLYON and Sarah WILLIAMS who spent most of their married life living in St Martin in Meneage. John became a blacksmith at St Martin Green (1861 census) with his wife Avis (who was born in St Keverne...possibly Avis ORCHARD?). I can find no record of their marriage as of yet.

In the 1871 census Avis CARLYON is living with her six children and describes herself as a blacksmith's wife. The question is...where is John? One possibility is that he has emigrated at this point. Is there anybody out there who has a blacksmith called John CARLYON in their family tree?

In the 1881 census Avis is living in Burnley, Lancashire where she descibes herself as a laundress and a widow. Is her husband actually dead at this point or just dead to her as she makes a new life for herself amid the cotton mills of Lancashire?

[Carlyon55]

I think we have the same family. My G Grandfather was Thomas Carlyon. He was the son of John Carlyon and Avis Orchard. My G G Grandfather was Edward Carlyon and he married Sarah Williams in 1834. I am told that he married three times in total. Thomas and Avis moved to Burnley from mawgan in meneage to find work, he was a blacksmith.

I am also very interested in tracing the Orchard family and also Avis's mother who was Jane Bolitho.


Adele Carlyon-Andrews.

[janbooth]

Hi Graham,

Avis Bolisho ORCHARD was married in the June qtr 1858 at Helson registration district, vol 5c, page 355 and there is a corresponding entry for John CARLYON.

As the youngest daughter Alice is only 6 weeks old in the 1871 census, John should not have died prior to 1870 unless Avis was seeking consolation!! I can't find him on the 1871 census or 1881 census records nor can I find a death registration for him.

Have you looked at the parish records for Constantine?? The LDS have filmed the parish records up to 1961 and you should be able to order them to view in situ at your local Family History Centre. This might just clarify the situation.

Janet

[Wobbley]

Baptism:
Parish St Keverne
Name: Avis ORCHARD
Date 20th Apr 1834
Father: John ORCHARD - Mother Jane
-------------------------------------------------
Marriage:
Parish St Keverne
Husband: John ORCHARD
Wife: Jane BOLITHO
Date 29th Aug 1826
-------------------------------------------------
1841 Census
John ORCHARD: Age 35: Occupation Farmer
Jane ORCHARD: Age 40
Jane ORCHARD: Age 13
John ORCHARD: Age 11
William ORCHARD: Age 9
Avis ORCHARD: Age 7
Philip ORCHARD: Age 5
Elizabeth ORCHARD: Age 2
+ three members of the Coad family

Address:
Trevothen, Parish St Keverne

Brian

[Wobbley]

I have been trying to find the Death Record of John Carlyon without much success.
In the 1881 Census, the last child born is a Thomas H CARLYON, age 2, born Burnley Lancs.

In FreeBMD there is birth Registration for a:
Births Sep qtr 1878
Thomas Henry T Carlyon: Burnley 8e 263

In the Lancs FreeBMD there is a birth Registration for a:
Thomas Henry Tattersall CARLYON: Born Burnley, Preston 1878

The last person mentioned in the 1881 Census for the CARLYON family was

Name: Henry T. TATTERSALL: Relationship Boarder: unmarried: Age 35: Occupation Cotton Weaver: Birthplace Burnley, Lancashire.

I just thought I'd mention it for future ref !!

Brian

[Carlyon55]

Thanks for that Wobbley. Thomas H Carlyon was my great grandfather. He married Elizabeth Bradshaw and they settled in Great Crosby. He was a salesman and Elizabeth was a probation officer who lived to the ripe old age of 98.

Adele

[Wobbley]

Hi Adele,
Have you the actual Birth Cert for Thomas H Carlyon ?

Brian

[Carlyon55]

Hiya Brian.

My Dad has a copy of his marriage cert, but not his birth cert.

Adele

[Wobbley]

Hi Adele,
I think it would be an advantage if you obtain his Birth Cert before you go further back.

Regards
Brian

[Graham L]

Wow! I'm a bit overwhelmed. I started this thread back in July 2005 and my first reply comes in January 2008! A lot of things have happened since I first posted. For a start, I now live in Cornwall and am lucky enough to be able to walk the same lanes as these ancestors.
I now possess the marriage certificate of John CARLYON and Avis Bolitho ORCHARD and can date both their ancestries back to back to the 1600s. They were married on 6 April 1858 at the parish church St Mawgan in Meneage (here I have also found the gravestones of Avis' grandmother Jane ORCHARD (nee HITCHEN) who was born about 1770 and died 17 May 1839 and Avis' great-grandfather Joseph ORCHARD b abt. 1751 died 29 March 1822. The stones are in excellent condition and stand just metres from the church door.

As for where John CARLYON finished his life, I can only guess. John's last census appearance is 1861. In 1871 Avis is described as a blacksmith's wife and in the 1881 census she is a widow. If we assume John died in this country then his death should appear somehwere in the BMD records. According to the FreeBMD records only one death is a possibility. There is a death in Helston (1863) which could be him but it does not explain why Avis calls herself a blacksmith's wife and not a widow in the 1871 census -plus she has a six week old child which one would presume was his.
There are 12 other death records in the whole of England between 1861 and 1881 and none of them have ages that might fall in line with John's birth in 1837.

The other alternative is that John emigrated (hoping to send for Avis and the kids at a later date). The Carlyons are well represented in Australia (see the website below
http://www.members.iinet.net.au/~kjstew/carlyonFULL.htm)
If he did emigrate this might indicate why Avis still believed herself to be a blacksmith's wife in 1871. Although I cannot prove it otherwise I do not believe John accompanied Avis to Burnley. There are no death records in the county that bear this out. But I stand to be corrected. As Wobbley says the only way to find out is to check with Thomas H CARLYON's birth certificate.

regards

Graham