+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 23
  1. #1
    Settling in.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Staffs
    Posts
    21
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Possible illegitmate child?

    Not sure if I am putting 2 nad 2 together and getting 5 !!

    I have got a copy of a marriage certificate but the Fathers name is blank, only a line drawn through it. So has the Rank/profession of the spouse.

    I am also struggling to find a birth record on FMP and Free BMD. Would this be a good indicator for illegitimacy?

    Any advice would be helpful, as a beginner, this is the first time I have come accross this.

    Thanks

    Iain

  2. #2
    Jan1954
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    I have got a copy of a marriage certificate but the Fathers name is blank, only a line drawn through it......Would this be a good indicator for illegitimacy?
    It may well be. However, there could be other reasons why the father's name is not recorded... a family falling-out, for instance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    I am also struggling to find a birth record
    What is the name of the person that you are looking for and what is the approximate year and place of birth? Have you found them in any censuses at all?

    Afterthought: Is it the person that you are searching for in this thread or is it someone else?

  3. #3
    Settling in.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Staffs
    Posts
    21
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Jan1954,

    Thanks for responding. No it is from my Wifes side of my research.

    Elizabeth Craddock. Age is 20 at the time of marriage which was 20th April 1891.

    I think i found her in the 1881 census living with her mother and uncle in Rugeley Staffirdshire. Basically where all of my wifes ancestors come from. This record gives a birth year of 1872.

  4. #4
    Reputation beyond repute
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    13,391
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 1,166 Times in 1,075 Posts

    Default

    I assume the census entry in question is The National Archives; RG 12/2216 f 30 p 20

    Have you considered these births?

    Births Dec 1871
    CRADDOCK Elizabeth Lichfield 6b 417

    Births Sep 1873
    Craddock Elizabeth Lichfield 6b 425

    The first of these is consistent with the census return.

    If I were you I would order the cert with the proviso that the mother's forename must be Ann.

  5. #5
    Reputation beyond repute
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    13,391
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 1,166 Times in 1,075 Posts

    Default

    Nope. You said 1881 so I suppose that is The National Archives; RG 11/2779 f 101 p 5

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Peter Goodey For This Useful Post:

    Iain (06-03-2012)

  7. #6
    Jan1954
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    I think i found her in the 1881 census living with her mother and uncle in Rugeley Staffirdshire. Basically where all of my wifes ancestors come from. This record gives a birth year of 1872.
    The thing to remember is that the year of birth given in census transcriptions is not exact. They look at the age given in the census and take it away from the census year. Therefore, an age of 19 given for someone in 1881 = a birth year of 1872 as far as they are concerned. However, if the person in question was 19 at the time of the census but 20 later that year, then the year of birth would be 1871 - not 1872. (I hope that this makes sense.....)

    Therefore....

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Goodey
    Have you considered these births?

    Births Dec 1871
    CRADDOCK Elizabeth Lichfield 6b 417

    Births Sep 1873
    Craddock Elizabeth Lichfield 6b 425

    The first of these is consistent with the census return.

    If I were you I would order the cert with the proviso that the mother's forename must be Ann.
    I would certainly agree with Peter and order the first certiicate that he mentions here.

    Good luck!

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Jan1954 For This Useful Post:

    Iain (06-03-2012)

  9. #7
    Famous for offering help & advice
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    1,327
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts

    Wink

    Hi I agree with Jan. Iain did you get the 1881 census info from FamilySearch as when you type a name and find them on the 1881 on that site it will say ie John Bloggs aged 49 born 1832. That was just an estimate from the time it was electronically indexed. No original records give the year of birth. Hope this makes sense.

    A baptism of Ann may list the putative father if the birth cert does not. You may find he was the flame haired milkman. :

    Sometimes you can find a father of a base child and other times you can have no luck. To me baptisms and bastardy orders are great hints. After 1834 bastard bonds ceased to exist so it became court involved due to the amendment of the Poor Law act. When you do find a father of a baseborn child at least you can say you have proved it beyond reasonable doubt. I dont think you can ever prove 100% the man who owned up was the father but 99.9% proof fi you find a court order or other record saying they admitted to it. There is still a very tiny realm of possibility they took the rap for someone. My great, great gran was born in 1863, parents wed in 1864 then she was baptised as the daughter of the mothers new husband (a servant) in the church they wed at. Turns out he was still wed when the babe was conceived and his previous wife had phthisis. And census records, school records and her marriage cert list Thos as her father. The baptism is the strongest evidence. With that I am 99.9% sure Thomas was the father. As these events happened long ago I dont think 100% proof can ever be achieved.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to benny1982 For This Useful Post:

    Iain (06-03-2012)

  11. #8
    Settling in.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Staffs
    Posts
    21
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Jan, Benny & Peter,

    Thanks for your input. I have ordered the certificate as suggested. However, checking census records again it would appear that Elizabeth went on to have a child out of wedlock !!!

    So more digging there to be done.

  12. #9
    Famous for offering help & advice
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    1,327
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts

    Default

    Let us know what the cert says so we can help you if needed.

    Was she born in Ruegley? If so then that parish will be a starting point to find a baptism.

  13. #10
    Settling in.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Staffs
    Posts
    21
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Jan, Benny and Peter,

    I have received the birth certificate for Elizabeth Craddock, born 12th October 1871. No father is mentioned. The address is given only as Brereton, Rugeley.

    Who/where should I now go with regards to a baptismal record?
    Is it likely that since no father is mentioned on hte birth certificate he will also be omitted from the baptismal records?
    Does this mean that Elizabeth is more than likely to have been illegitimate?

    Amazing how many questions get thrown up as you delve deeper !!

    Again any advice would be appreciated.

    Kind regards

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Select a file: