Is my conclusion as to the identity logical?
My grand Aunt - Nellie Golley - married Joseph Henry Bray on April 28, 1919. They had 3 children born between 1920 and 1927. None of the children nor their parents are still alive.
Joseph Henry died in 1942. Nellie died in 1971. Their marriage certificate indicated no father's name All of Nellie's siblings as well as her parents knew that Joseph Henry was illegitimate, and that the identity of the father was unknown.
I have Joseph Henry's birth certificate - January 25, 1891 - naming his mother as Susan Jane Bray.
Susan Jane was 1 of 10 children born to William Henry and Mary Jane and was born in 1869. Prior to the birth of her son, she was living with her parents [William H. was a Miller by trade] 5 siblings and a boarder Richard Johns - a General Labourer, single and aged 30.This comprised the household as of the time of the 1891 census - RG12/1839/187/8 - crown copyright TNA
I have reason to believe that Susan went to New York on September 12, 1891 and never returned.
The family dwindled - William Henry died in 1895 -, some children married and others went to the U.S, so that in 1901 the household consisted ofMary Jane [W.H.'s widow, Laura Bray [unmarried], Joseph Henry and Richard Johns. - RG13/2232/180/8 - crown copyright TNA
Laura married in 1906 and by 1910, she was seperated from her husband but still legally married. The 1911 census still has the same 4 persons listed.
Laura leaves the house and under her maiden name joins her 3 brothers in Boston, Mass.
Mary Jane dies in 1912. The informant at her death is yet to be determined, however my suspicions are that it was Richard Johns.
I think that this is sufficient to conclude that Richard was the father and supported Joseph Henry and helped financially after the death of William Henry in 1895
What do others think?
Results 1 to 10 of 18
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29-12-2011, 3:45 PM #1Colin RowledgeGuest
No father named on Birth Certificate - but -
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29-12-2011, 3:52 PM #2Jan1954Guest
Any chance of a will anywhere, Colin? It might name Joseph Henry as a beneficiary of Richard.
Just a thought.....
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29-12-2011, 4:05 PM #3Colin RowledgeGuest
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29-12-2011, 6:36 PM #4
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Unless you have independent evidence for the above which you haven't posted, I think your conclusion would be a considerable leap of faith.
If Joseph Henry's father was unknown, and his mother had disappeared for whatever reason, it might be expected that he would be brought up in his grandparents' home, regardless of who the father was.
Perhaps Richard JOHNS was simply a long-term lodger? Perhaps he was related to the BRAY family in some way? Have you tried to pursue his origins?
Just playing Devil's Advocate.
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29-12-2011, 8:39 PM #5Colin RowledgeGuest
Hi Kerrywood - a Devil's Advocate is what I need here!!
I know where Richard Johns was from 1891 until the death of Mary Jane in 1912.
He is not indicated as a witness at the wedding of Nellie and Joseph Henry in 1919, but did die in the Redruth reg. district in 1924. Prior to his marriage to Nellie, Joseph Henry lived at Druid's Lodge, Illogan. Can anyone tell me anything about that location?
I have some bits and pieces about Richard prior to his link-up prior to 1891 census and once it's complete, I'll post it.
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29-12-2011, 8:58 PM #6MutleyGuestOriginally Posted by Colin Rowledge;503540Prior to his marriage to Nellie, Joseph Henry lived at [B
https://www.
carnbreaparishcouncil.gov.uk/Uploads/Site694/Files/CarnBreaboard.pdf
I then found a reference to it as being a Smallpox Isolation Hospital.
Using google finds plenty of property for sale there so maybe at some point it was knocked down an a housing estate built?
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29-12-2011, 9:33 PM #7MutleyGuest
Although Druids Lodge is not specifically mentioned, Druids Road and Illogan Highway are. There are 28 pages of local history at this site (Cornwall Industrial Settlements Initiative) covering the period your rellies lived there. Some good pictures on the last page.
https://www.
historic-cornwall.org.uk/cisi/illogan_highway/CISI_Illogan_Highway_report.pdf
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29-12-2011, 9:42 PM #8Colin RowledgeGuest
Now for Richard's background!
His birth was registered in the Helston R.D Jul-Sep q. 1861. This included the parish of Gunwalloe. Full name was Richard Henry Johns.
He was baptised as such in Gunwalloe on January 5, 1862. Parents were Joseph Johns and Mary Jane.
Joseph Johns married Mary Jane Downing in Helston on April 7, 1861 in Helston. Her father was Richard Downing a Mason by trade.
1871 Census - RG10/2304/15/21 - he is with his grandparents - Richard and Mary Downing - in Helston and living on Wendron Street. Richard Downing is a Mason by trade. Young Richard is on the schedule as Richard H. a scholar. Birthplace is Gunwalloe
1881 Census - RG11/2322/109/2 - he is now a employed as a Servant at the home of an unmarried man named Russell. Mr Russell is a Miller by trade. The residence is in Sithney Green, Sithney. 3 residences away from this household is the Bray family includinjg Susan Jane.
Still a great leap of faith?
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29-12-2011, 10:00 PM #9Colin RowledgeGuest
In 1881 Richard was 19 [or thereabouts] and Susan Jane was 12 [or thereabouts].
Could the unmarried Mr. Russell have moved away or got married? Richard then became a General Labourer in the area and needed lodgings He knew the Bray family and they could have accepted him as a lodger/boarder - possible?
If this happened in the mid-late 1880's with 2 young folks - it is possible - eh wot!!
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30-12-2011, 1:31 PM #10Colin RowledgeGuest
Forgot to add [to post #8] that there is a possible death of Richard's father Joseph age 48 and was buried on November 6, 1868.
If this is the right person, then the idea of young Richard being in with his grandparents in 1871 makes sense, as I cannot find either a death or remarriage for his mother, Margaret Jane.
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