St Pancras Burials

[greg_ball]

I was hoping someone could help make sense of a few burial records for the same man.

I have a burial record from Ancestry that comes under Burials at St Pancras Chapel in 1904.
It says:
Dec 6 Willm S. Chivers Age 58 Abode: Walthamstow

I also have a scan from the burial register page at deceased online for St. Pancras Cemetery in 1904. It says:
CHURCH GROUND
No. 218576
Name: William Samuel Chivers
Abode: 59 Courtney Road, Walthamstow
When Buried: Dec 6th
Age: 58
By whom the ceremony preformed: T.R. Moore
No. Of grave: 66 7M
Class: 3
Name of Undertaker: Dyer

This man also appears in the Probate calendar in 1904:
CHIVERS William Samuel of 59 Courtenay-road Walthamstow Essex died 29 November 1904 Probate London 10 December to Eliza Chivers widow and William Edwin Arthur Chivers silver-mounter Effects £554 18s.

My first question is, where exactly do these burial records refer to?
I am confused by seeing two entries, and also that the St. Pancras Cemetery one says “Church Ground” at the top. Is that likely to just mean consecrated ground in the cemetery? I thought that St. Pancras Chapel referred to St Pancras Old Church?

My second question is, what does class 3 refer to? a public/common grave or a private grave?
Given that he appears in the probate calendar so had an estate sufficient for that, I was maybe expecting a private grave. But very few in this family have been affluent enough for that. Would it be unusual to go from Walthamstow to St Pancras for a public grave burial?

Hope someone can help out!

[Peter Goodey]

The first record mentioned is part of the LMA collection and the full citation given by Ancestry is "London Metropolitan Archives, Saint Pancras Parish Church, Register of burials at Finchley Cemetery, P90/PAN1, Item 208, p90/pan1/208"

The title in LMA's catalogue is "Register of interments at parochial cemetery, Finchley".

LMA's online catalogue contains the following note

"Saint Pancras was a parish before the Norman Conquest of 1066. It is said to occupy the site of a Roman Camp, the old church was erected around 1180. It was enlarged and almost rebuilt in 1848 and again restored in 1888. The burial ground has been a place of Christian burial for over 700 years, being at times favoured by Roman Catholics and in particular French exiles, a factor said to be attributable to the church's dedication to the Roman martyr Pancratius. In 1822 a new parish church was completed in Euston Road, reducing the Old Church to the status of a parish chapel. In 1863 the latter regained its status as the principal church of a new parish. The two parishes are referred to separately as Saint Pancras, Pancras Road (ie the Old Church, but a new parish) and Saint Pancras, Euston Road (ie the new church completed in 1822, but the old parish). Records dated 1660-1822 therefore relate to Saint Pancras Old Church when it was the main parish church of the ancient parish of Saint Pancras. Records of Saint Pancras Old Church dated 1863 onwards refer to the new, smaller and separate parish assigned to this church after that date."

Does that help to clarify it?

[pippycat]

Beaten to it by Peter!!

Greg, if you google St Pancras Old Church the Wikipedia entry explains there are 2 churches.

A new St Pancras church was built about half a mile from the old church and consecrated in 1822 - when the old church ceased to be the parish church.
In 1852 the old St Pancras assigned a parish again and became known as "Old St Pancras Church"

There is mention that the New St Pancras became Chapel of Ease so maybe thats the reference to the A* burial, but I don't know (somebody will, for sure, come along and correct me!)

There is also info available on Genuki about both churches and they state " the LDS rather confusingly continue to call the registers for St Pancras New, St Pancras Old"

So now we're all confused!

Just a thought, have you considered this:

Death: William Samuel Chivers age 58 West Ham, Essex
Dec Q 1904 v4a p223

This being the same registration district as Walthamstow.

Rebecca

[Kerrywood]

My first question is, where exactly do these burial records refer to?

As Peter has shown, the burial was at St Pancras Cemetery in Finchley, not at the church. Please see here
www.
islington.gov.uk/environment/cemeteries/stpancras_cemetery.asp
(don't be misled by 'Islington' -- it's a shared ground)

I am confused by seeing two entries, and also that the St. Pancras Cemetery one says “Church Ground” at the top. Is that likely to just mean consecrated ground in the cemetery?

Precisely. It's the name of one area of this huge cemetery.

I thought that St. Pancras Chapel referred to St Pancras Old Church?

In Ancestry's terminology it does, but that's slightly misleading. For a good explanation of the parish, please see here.
http://
homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/MDX/StPancras/churches.htm

what does class 3 refer to? a public/common grave or a private grave?

Different cemeteries use different terminology. Your best bet would be to ring the cemetery and ask. They are very helpful, and as you have the grave number they will probably tell you over the phone without charge. As you're in London, you would then have the option of visiting, if you wish.

Would it be unusual to go from Walthamstow to St Pancras for a public grave burial?

I would say fairly unusual, so there may have been a family connection with St Pancras, or possibly the person who arranged the funeral lived in that area. If it turns out to be a private grave, the cemetery office will also be able to tell you who purchased it, and if anyone else is buried in it.

[Kerrywood]

and if anyone else is buried in it.

Come to think of it, details of others buried in the same grave are available at Deceased Online, for the cost of a few credits.

www.
deceasedonline.com

Meanwhile, the free index tells you there are 9 other burials in it, so it's quite likely to be a common grave.

[greg_ball]

Thank you to everyone for clarifying this. I had got in a bit of a muddle, but it is clear now. I think sometime extracting the actual source data out from Ancestry can be a bit difficult. It is clear now that he was buried at St. Pancras Cemetery in the consecrated ground there.

I have since found his wife buried in Islington Cemetery in a different grave, and given that the other 9 buried in the grave in St. Pancras don't seem to be related (I looked on deceasedonline), I'm confident it was a public grave.

It seems weird to have come all the way from Walthamstow, but I believe his son was in the Islington area, so that is maybe why.

Thanks again for all the help!

[leslam]

Gosh this is confusing!
I have a burial record for 1841. The register says "Burials in the Parish of Saint Pancras...." and the Ancestry index says "St Pancras Parish Chapel".
The following is the source citation on the ancestry record:
Source Citation: ; London Metropolitan Archives, Saint Pancras Parish Church, Register of burials, P90/PAN1, Item 186; Call Number: p90/pan1/186

Is the burial for St Pancras Old Church or for the "New" church? How can I tell from the indexing informationa and the citation?

Thanks in advance for any help...

[edwardtjones]

About two years ago was watching a programme about the building of the Channel Tunnel. When they started building at St Pancras they found Hundreds if not Thousands of graves which they had to move. It maybe that the Channel tunnel company have a record of any graves they could identify or any that they moved.