Lost in Essex

[t@nya]

Yes, a lot of red herrings. The listed age seems to be all over the place. I'll have another look tomorrow.

[t@nya]

I checked the marriage indexes. I can't find any marriage for John Dyce that looks at all like. For Jane Duce I found one in 1853 (Jane-Feb-March) in Stockton, Durham.

There are three names on the page: Jane Duce, Elizabeth Weaver, and John Owens. The name of the other groom is missing. A bit of long shot, but maybe the missing groom is John Dyke. I'm sorry I couldn't be of more help.

By the way, how did you discover Jane's maiden name?

[t@nya]

I found three possible deaths for William Douce. He appears in the 1851 census but not the 1861 one.

William Deuce Jul-Aug-Sep 1854 Maldon Essex
William Duce Jul-Aug-Sep 1859 Maldon Essex
William Duce Oct-Nov-Dec 1859 Maldon Essex

I also found his second marriage on FamilySearch: 25 December 1835, Bradwell-Near-the Sea, Essex to Sarah Ann Moss. I couldn't find his first marriage, at least not under that spelling.

I found Sarah Ann Duce as a widow in the 1861 census living with a widower John Aker. She's still living with him in 1871. It looks like she died 1877 (registered Maldon, Essex)

I haven't been able to find the death of William's first wife as yet.

[t@nya]

I've been trying to find information about John Dyce without luck. I can't find him on the 1841 or the 1851 census. In those years, most of the John Dyce I've found are from Scotland. Nor can I find any information about his parents. I hope you don't mind me asking, but where did you get the information on the names of his parents?

[DaveLoy]

Hi T@nya

I got the details for John and Jane from their death certs and the Scotish census records. I have attached below my full record of the data I have on them.

John Dyce (David Loydall, Frank Loydall, John James Loydall, Elizabeth Ann Dyce)
According to John’s death certificate, he was born in 1815 to William and Janet Dyce nee Branch. No record can be found for his birth or any record on the 1841 or 1851 census but the 1861 census gives his place of birth as Semilarence, England which is the Scottish version of St Lawrence in Essex. His actual year of birth is very difficult to determine due to the fact that on every document so far collated, his age varies. The dates range from 1805, 1815 and 1819. As no record of his actual birth or his wedding to Jane Douce has been found, the major dates in his life are still mysteries. The Death Certificate for John Dyce records that he died on the 19th March 1886 at 9.45 am, living at 70 Dundee Road Forfar at the age of 71. The cause of death was stated as senile decay. His occupation was given as Cattleman and his daughter Harriett Dyce was present. It is strange that his age at death is given as 71, whist in 1881 the census records his age as 76.
Documental Record for John Dyce

1861 Census for Padenarum No 6 Kirremuir, Angus, Scotland
Name Relationship Age Occupation Where Born
John Dyce Head 46 Labourer Semilarence, England
Jane Dyce Wife 36 Labourers Wife Semilarence, England
Elizabeth Dyce Daughter 7 Puper Shac Thuenanel Kirriemuir, Forfarshire
Arthur Dyce Son 4 Forfarshire
John Dyce Son Kirriemuir, Forfarshire.

1871 Census for 21 Dundee Road, Forfar, Scotland
Name Relationship Age Occupation Where Born
John Dyce Head 52 Calitman England
Jane Dyce Wife 42 Linen Weaver England
Elizabeth Dyce Daughter 18 Power Loom Weaver Menmuir, Forfarshire
Arthur Dyce Son 14 Taylors Apprentice Menmuir, Forfarshire
Jane Dyce Daughter 7 Scholar Menmuir, Forfarshire
Harriett Dyce Daughter 3 Forfar

1881 Census for 70 Dundee Road, Forfar, Scotland
Name Relationship Age Occupation Where Born
John Dyce Head 76 Labourer England
Jane Dyce Wife 55 England
Elizabeth Loydall Daughter 27 Forfar, Scotland
Jane Dyce Daughter 17 Factory Worker Forfar, Scotland
John Loydall Grandson 1 England
Isaac Loydall Grandson 8 months England


Jane Douce (David Loydall, Frank Loydall, John James Loydall, Elizabeth Ann Dyce)

Jane was christened on the 29th April 1829 in Bradwell on Sea in Essex, the daughter of William and Mary Douce (Duce) nee Biggs.
The first census that Jane appears in is 1851 for the house of Richard Spurgens, a retired butcher, at 1 Frith Villa, Lainden, Essex, where Jane, aged 22 years and unmarried of Bradwell Essex, working as a servant.
By 1854 it is assumed that she had married John Dyce and had moved to Scotland where their first daughter Elizabeth was born. The 1861 census records the family living at Padenarum No 6 Kirremuir, Angus, Scotland
Following the death of her husband in 1886, the 1891 census records her as living at 72 Dundee Road, Forfar, working as a washer woman.
Jane died, according to her death certificate, on the 19th July 1901 at 1pm, at 3 Glamis Road, Forfar at the age of 69. The cause of death was given as Cerebral Haemorrhage.
The discrepancies between official documents often cause problems. Two documents created in the same year give differing information. Her age on the 1901 census is given as 62 i.e. born in 1839. The age on her death certificate is 69, i.e. born 1832. The problem is then compounded by other data. The records show she was christened in 1829. She may have been born early than that as it was common to have the child christened sometime after birth. The 1851 census gives an age of 22, i.e. born in 1829; the 1861 census gives an age of 36, i.e. born in 1825; the 1871 census gives an age of 42, i.e. born in 1839; the 1881 census gives an age of 55, i.e. born in 1826.

Documental Records for Jane Dyce nee Duce

1901 Census for 72 Dundee Road, Forfar, Scotland
Name Relationship Age Occupation Where Born
Jane Dyce Widow 62 Washer Woman England

[DaveLoy]

By the way, Janes maiden name is on her death cert. The Scotish ones are really good for detail.

Regards

[t@nya]

I see. Thanks for that: I don't have any Scottish ancestors so I'm completely unfamiliar with the details of certificates from there. I'll try and find some information later.

[t@nya]

Sorry, I'm out of ideas. I even checked to see if there was a Loydall family in Essex, but the surname seems very rare there. I don't have an Ancestry subscription at the moment: maybe one of the other members on here will be able to help you further.

[DaveLoy]

Thanks for all your efforts.

Regards

Dave