William Sidney Gibson - Identity of father

[wonnig]

I posted a query, (no. 35510), on 22/09/2008, (a long time ago!), about my extremely elusive gt grandfather and despite great efforts here to help me I made no progress, and had all but given up.

However, I now have a brief set of notes written by my aunt which have given me a little bit of a kick.
As a result I now have a marriage certificate from GRO for my Great Uncle, William Sidney Gibson, bn 1877 @ Gt Yarmouth.

He was originally married to an Emma Margaret Watson in 1902 at Heigham, Norwich but she appears to have subsequently died, probably in 1939 in the Norwich area.

The marriage certificate I have received shows William Sidney, aged 61yr, widower, marrying at Norwich Register Office on 27/12/1939. He married a Helen Louise Connerton, 49yr, spinster, housekeeper. They are shown as residing at the same address in Norwich.

The problem I have is that William Sidney’s father is recorded as Albert Gibson, deceased, a fisherman.
His father, on his birth certificate is shown as George Sidney, not Albert.

I know very little about George Sidney, except that he was a fisherman and married on 23/04/1874 at Great Yarmouth. He is named as the father on birth and marriage certificates for all of William’s siblings, but I have not been able to get any further definite information on him.

It is possible that this certificate relates to a different William Sidney Gibson, but I doubt it. FreeBMD only shows, in the whole of the country, 2 people of that name born between 1870 & 1880 – William Sydney bn q3 1871 at St Saviour & William Sidney, bn q2 1877 at Yarmouth.

The certificate for his 2nd marriage is a copy of a typed/printed document rather than a copy of a handwritten one. Is it likely or possible that the reference to Albert is a copying error, or some sort of mistake at the Register Office?

Would Norwich Register Office still have a copy of the original certificate/record and can I get one from there if so?

Many thanks

[Findem]

Hi,

Some of my Essex B,M & D certs have the details typewritten in, for others the details appear to be a photocopied from the original, I have never queried why but I suppose it could be for any number of reasons, including the photocopier being out of service. I feel quite sure the NRO would have taken the details from the original, I have on a few occasions contacted the Essex RO to query certificate details and they were quite happy to oblige, so I'm sure if you contact the NRO they will help.

Regards.

[wonnig]

Hello Findem

Very good point. Most of mine are "photocopies of originals", with just a couple or so that have been type written or similar.
Could it be that the original is such that it's of very poor quality and not suitable for a photo copy, so they type or print
them in some way. I'll email GRO about it & see what they say.

Thanks very much
Regards

[terrysfamily]

Just to muddy the waters a bit more these are some births and baptisms from familysearch and FreeBMD. Do any of the children of George and Elizabeth resemble any of the siblings of your William Sidney Gibson?

Marriages Jun 1874
Gibson George Yarmouth 4b 10
Hickling Elizabeth Rosina Yarmouth 4b 10

Groom: George Gibson
Bride: Rosina Elizabeth Hickling
marriage date: 19 Apr 1874,Yarmouth, Norfolk, England
indexing project (batch) number: I07375-2, source film number: 1526491

George Henry Gollop Gibson, Male
baptism/christening date: 14 May 1890

Births Jun 1875 Gibson George Henry Yarmouth 4b 11

William Sidney Gollop Gibson, Male
baptism/christening date: 14 May 1890

Births Jun 1877 GIBSON William Sidney Yarmouth 4b 6

Alfred John Gollop Gibson, Male
baptism/christening date: 14 May 1890

Births Jun 1879 Gibson Alfred John Yarmouth 4b 13

Gertrude Lilian Gollop Gibson, Female
baptism/christening date: 14 May 1890

Births Jun 1883 GIBSON Gertrude Lilian Yarmouth 4b 3

Sidney Gollop Gibson, Male
aptism/christening date: 14 May 1890

Births Mar 1887 GIBSON Sidney Gollop Yarmouth 4b 8

Rosa Leah Gollop Gibson
baptism/christening date: 09 Sep 1890
birth: 13 Aug 1890

Births Dec 1890 Gibson Rose Leah Yarmouth 4b 5

With Father George Sidney (Gollop) Gibson, Mother Elizabeth Rose

All source numbers
indexing project (batch) number: I07377-2, source film number:1526623

Terry

[kaysii]

William Sidney Gibson is living with his mother Elizabeth Gibson in Yarmouth in 1881 - he is deaf and dumb. The father is not present but the mother in law to the head of household is Hickling so the marriage given above is likely to be correct. Here is a link to the wedding register, it's image 4. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3....98&wc=12711474

The name on the wedding register is George Gibson a fisherman and his father is George Gibson a bricklayer. Have not found a baptism for William Sidney yet. kaysii

[wonnig]

Just to muddy the waters a bit more these are some births and baptisms from familysearch and FreeBMD. Do any of the children of George and Elizabeth resemble any of the siblings of your William Sidney Gibson?

Hello Terry
Thanks for your interest.
Yes, that's the family. Lilian, (bn 1891), was my grandmother. Curiously she and her brother, Sidney, (1886), were the only ones to have been given the forename of Gollop when their births were registered.
LDS shows, most of them with this extra forename, which seems to have been added in later life on christening, or after death!

I have located 11 children of the family, 5 of whom died in childhood, some within a matters of months. 1911 census declares a total of 14, but I've never been able to trace the other 3.

As regards the Albert/William problem, I'm satisfied that the certificate is the one I want.
My father and his sister Lilian benefited, a few years ago from an inheritance from someone called Connorton.
William's 2nd marriage was to a Helen L Connorton, (bn 1890 St Pancras, d 1982 Norwich) who had 1 son, (probably illegitimate), Henry Victor Connorton, (bn 1920, d 1997, both Norwich). My father described him as a "distant" relative who was gay & had never married. Unfortunately my father is no longer alive to add any further info, & my Aunt Lily suffers from some degree of dementia and cannot be relied on to give accurate information.
So my dilemma is, where did Albert "spring from"?

I've queried the Albert Gibson with GRO and and am waiting for their reply.

As a side issue, the form for questions etc about certificates on the GRO site has a section at the bottom for comments, explanations etc. To the right of this is a note stating that only 250 words are allowed. I tried less than this limit several times, only for it to be always rejected by a message stipulating a limit of 250 characters!!

[wonnig]

Thanks Kaysii
I have the marriage cert, (23/04/1874) for George Gibson & Elizabeth Gibson. That is the only reference on an official document that I can find for him. Ages on the certificate are 21 & 20 respectively. On all the family certificates I have he is shown as George, George Sidney, or George Sydney, a fisherman. The children's births and deaths were all registered by Elizabeth, and even her death was recorded by the head of Yarmouth Infirmary. This certificate, (1915), shows her as the wife of a fisherman, so presumably he was still alive at that time.

[kaysii]

In 1871 there is a George Gallop 19 years old fisherman born in London boarding with a Caroline Barker in Yarmouth. I wonder if this could be of interest as Gallop and Gollop are often interchangeable. If he is your man, not sure why he took the name Gibson! There is a family in Greenwich in 1861 with an Ann Gollop staying with relatives, unfortunately named Smith. Although there is not a George Gollop (one was born in Greenwich in 1854 Sep vol 1d p502) there is a George Smith of the right age who is not there in 1871. William Smith is also a brickmaker. If Ann was really unmarried when she had George, maybe George invented a father?? In 1871 Ann has remarried and only her youngest son is living with her. All very tenuous I admit, but maybe worth following up.
kaysii

[wonnig]

In 1871 there is a George Gallop 19 years old fisherman born in London boarding with a Caroline Barker in Yarmouth. I wonder if this could be of interest as Gallop and Gollop are often interchangeable. If he is your man, not sure why he took the name Gibson! There is a family in Greenwich in 1861 with an Ann Gollop staying with relatives, unfortunately named Smith. Although there is not a George Gollop (one was born in Greenwich in 1854 Sep vol 1d p502) there is a George Smith of the right age who is not there in 1871. William Smith is also a brickmaker. If Ann was really unmarried when she had George, maybe George invented a father?? In 1871 Ann has remarried and only her youngest son is living with her. All very tenuous I admit, but maybe worth following up.
kaysii

Thanks kaysii, that is rather interesting. The marriage certificate puts his year of birth at 1853 or thereabouts.
The name Gollop must have some significance in relation to the family. The only time it crops up anywhere in respect of my grandmother is on her birth certificate. It never appears in any census records, or her marriage & death certificates.

As you say, this is an avenue worth pursuing

[wonnig]

I posted a query, (no. 35510), on 22/09/2008, (a long time ago!), about my extremely elusive gt grandfather and despite great efforts here to help me I made no progress, and had all but given up.

However, I now have a brief set of notes written by my aunt which have given me a little bit of a kick.
As a result I now have a marriage certificate from GRO for my Great Uncle, William Sidney Gibson, bn 1877 @ Gt Yarmouth.

He was originally married to an Emma Margaret Watson in 1902 at Heigham, Norwich but she appears to have subsequently died, probably in 1939 in the Norwich area.

The marriage certificate I have received shows William Sidney, aged 61yr, widower, marrying at Norwich Register Office on 27/12/1939. He married a Helen Louise Connerton, 49yr, spinster, housekeeper. They are shown as residing at the same address in Norwich.

The problem I have is that William Sidney’s father is recorded as Albert Gibson, deceased, a fisherman.
His father, on his birth certificate is shown as George Sidney, not Albert.

I know very little about George Sidney, except that he was a fisherman and married on 23/04/1874 at Great Yarmouth. He is named as the father on birth and marriage certificates for all of William’s siblings, but I have not been able to get any further definite information on him.

It is possible that this certificate relates to a different William Sidney Gibson, but I doubt it. FreeBMD only shows, in the whole of the country, 2 people of that name born between 1870 & 1880 – William Sydney bn q3 1871 at St Saviour & William Sidney, bn q2 1877 at Yarmouth.

The certificate for his 2nd marriage is a copy of a typed/printed document rather than a copy of a handwritten one. Is it likely or possible that the reference to Albert is a copying error, or some sort of mistake at the Register Office?

Would Norwich Register Office still have a copy of the original certificate/record and can I get one from there if so?

Many thanks

I've had an email from GRO this morning and they say that they have checked with
Norwich register office who say that the father's name is recorded there is Albert, this being the name
given at the time of registration.

Getting rather puzzled now.